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GaiaGirl95 GaiaGirl95
wrote...
Posts: 161
Rep: 2 0
10 years ago
From the Huffingtonpost:

''Frank Baker faced death while earning two Purple Hearts in Vietnam, but the scariest moment of his life came in June 1995.

Baker was in his home in Vermont, when he suddenly burst into flames, an experience he discusses for the first time on "The Unexplained Files," airing Oct. 2 on the Science Channel.

"We were getting ready for fishing and sitting on the couch," Baker said on the episode. "Everything was great. [Friend] Pete [Willey] was sitting next to me [and] we were having a helluva time."

That is, until things started heating up -- literally -- when flames appeared on Baker's body.

"It was the damndest thing I've ever seen," Willey remembered. "Frank was freaking out and making me freak out."

Baker started panicking and tried everything to stop his body from being burned.

"I had no idea what was taking place on my body -- none," he said.

Baker and Willey somehow put out the flames and got to a doctor. But the diagnosis was as shocking as the sudden flames that engulfed his body.

"The doctor called, and said, 'Frank, this burned from the inside out,'" Baker said.


Frank Baker discussed his alleged case on Oct. 2, on the Unexplained Files on the Science Channel. No skeptical input whatsoever is offered in the news source (which did irk me) so I'm wondering what you guys think.

He was then diagnosed with partial spontaneous combustion. He says on his Facebook he wants donations because he's having testing done and for finding a cure. He recently sold his home so there must be truth to this story because he seems really desperate he says this has happened to him 3 times so far and that there may not be a fourth.
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wrote...
Valued Member
Educator
10 years ago
This sounds like a severe case of heartburn lol This, of course is impossible. Yes, gas is produced in our intestines, let's say it's methane (CH4) for arguments sake. CH4 is a hydrocarbon; in order for something like this to 'combust', ample oxygen is required + an energy source (>>40 oC - our body temperature)... Another reason why it's bogus is because it came from the Huffingtonpost.
GaiaGirl95 Author
wrote...
10 years ago
Some theories on how SHC happens isn't limited to methane gas explosions, but from a build up of reactive chemicals in cells, or some kind of metabolic runaway event.

However, the most popular theory of how true SHC happens is from a chemical reaction. Cells do produce reactive chemicals such as propanal, hydrogen peroxide, other aldehydes, etc. In high concentrations these chemicals react with other chemicals exothermically.

I know Frank Baker's facebook account. He asks for donations to help find a cure for his chronic SHC, and to pay for the testing because they're interested in his cells. He says it's happened to him not once but 3 times and has launched a funding site for his condition.

Frank also says he has the doctors statements to back him up.
There was a case last year of a baby in India named Rahul who also kept spontaneously combusting, and like in this case, the doctors diagnosed him with spontaneous combustion. Made national news.
wrote...
Staff Member
10 years ago
propanal, hydrogen peroxide, other aldehydes, etc.

Hydrogen peroxide, true, but never have I heard of propanal.

Natural selection would have weeded out this possibility long, long ago. If this thing were common, the human race would cease to exist - humans would be in constant fear of going to bed one night and not waking up as a result of internal burning. The idea is absolutely ridiculous.

@Bio_man, you mentioned that you'd need a spark of some sort. Recall that fires can begin as a result of a buildup of static electricity inside the body, but this idea is also far fetched.

We all know what really happened here. Frank Baker obviously lit a match near his bum hole, but doesn't want to admit it Smiling Face with Open Mouth
- Master of Science in Biology
- Bachelor of Science
GaiaGirl95 Author
wrote...
10 years ago Edited: 10 years ago, GaiaGirl95
Maybe, but there's still people getting things such as cancer. Just because natural selection is real doesn't rule out the possibility that some bodies develop faults in their lifetime. It doesn't disprove SHC at all.

Also, if it was static electricity that caused him to catch fire, that still wouldn't explain why his doctor concluded that he had burnt from the inside out. Static electricity is a surface phenomenon. It would not have caused burns that were more severe on the inside than on the outside, as a simple biopsy, CT or MRI scan would've shown.
wrote...
Staff Member
10 years ago Edited: 10 years ago, duddy

Good diagram to show that oxygen levels inside the colon are extremely low.

Back when we were tribes-people, we rarely made it to our 40's. Men and women would die at a very young age, relative to today's standards. Therefore, adult onset diseases, such as cancers, weren't common anyway. When seeking a mate, men wouldn't select for women that didn't have cancer; if a woman looked healthy, had long hair, and was single, they were selected by the alpha male of the tribe.
- Master of Science in Biology
- Bachelor of Science
wrote...
Staff Member
10 years ago
Can you provide an actual, credible source for this story?
- Master of Science in Biology
- Bachelor of Science
GaiaGirl95 Author
wrote...
10 years ago
Can you provide an actual, credible source for this story?

I cannot offer links because I don't have enough posts.. but search it on the Huffington post.. I also have Frank Baker's facebook account with him asking for donations to find a cure for SHC..

Also you did not comment on the most popular theory for how SHC happens - a chemical imbalance.
wrote...
Staff Member
10 years ago Edited: 10 years ago, duddy
You can post links. You need a single post only - but I'm searching it now. The more I look into it, the more I find it absurd.

Before I respond to that idea, have you ever used hydrogen peroxide for a cut?
- Master of Science in Biology
- Bachelor of Science
GaiaGirl95 Author
wrote...
10 years ago
You can post links. You need a single post only - but I'm searching it now. The more I look into it, the more I find it absurd.

Before I respond to that idea, have you ever used hydrogen peroxide for a cut?





Here's the link : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/frank-baker-spontaneous-combustion_n_4024833.html

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to give away Facebook data. I'll leave it there.

Anyway, the hydrogen peroxide you use for cuts is low concentration. Usually about 3%. At 70%, for example, hydrogen peroxide is highly reactive and it may react and oxidize organic materials causing spontaneous combustion, because the reactions are exothermic.

Propanal is unstable and can exothermically polymerize with certain amino acids etc... Aldehydes are also metabolites and these are reactive too, depending on the species of aldehyde.

What I am saying is that there are some rather nasty chemicals which are metabolities in the body. Chemicals you wouldn't really want to mess with even in a lab.

Now consider that's when you have two or more chemicals in a lab. The human body contains thousands of chemicals, so there's a lot of space for chemical incompatibilities.
wrote...
Staff Member
10 years ago
Don't mean to sound smug, but I'm aware of all those chemicals Smiling Face with Open Mouth and Tightly-closed Eyes

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that if you've ever used H2O2 for a cut, you'll notice that the cut turns white. Reason being, we have MASSIVE amounts of catalases (enzymes that neutralize peroxide) in our bloodstream that neutralize it (H2O2 + Catalase Rightwards Arrow Water + O2). We have evolved to produce just the right amounts for things like this never to occur.

Quote
Now consider that's when you have two or more chemicals in a lab. The human body contains thousands of chemicals, so there's a lot of space for chemical incompatibilities.

Good point, but if that were the case, it would have happened to this person along time ago. Unless a mutation occurred somewhere inside of him, that makes him produce a lot of more deadly chemicals. However, even if this were true, that would mean he has cancer, and so would have been dead by now.
- Master of Science in Biology
- Bachelor of Science
GaiaGirl95 Author
wrote...
10 years ago Edited: 10 years ago, GaiaGirl95
Don't mean to sound smug, but I'm aware of all those chemicals Smiling Face with Open Mouth and Tightly-closed Eyes

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that if you've ever used H2O2 for a cut, you'll notice that the cut turns white. Reason being, we have MASSIVE amounts of catalases (enzymes that neutralize peroxide) in our bloodstream that neutralize it (H2O2 + Catalase Rightwards Arrow Water + O2). We have evolved to produce just the right amounts for things like this never to occur.

Quote
Now consider that's when you have two or more chemicals in a lab. The human body contains thousands of chemicals, so there's a lot of space for chemical incompatibilities.

Good point, but if that were the case, it would have happened to this person along time ago. Unless a mutation occurred somewhere inside of him, that makes him produce a lot of more deadly chemicals. However, even if this were true, that would mean he has cancer, and so would have been dead by now.

Not likely.. sorry.. enzyme deficiencies do occur and it's possible that the culprit wasn't hydrogen peroxide but some other chemicals mixing together creating the exothermic reaction. Cancer kills you slowly.. cancer happens much slower than exothermic reactions.
wrote...
Staff Member
10 years ago
So you think it's cancer?

Evidently it isn't if he isn't dead yet. Correction, cancer does act quickly.

And, if it's not cancer, then it's not a mutation.

Enzyme deficiencies do happen as we age, but how would that account for the sudden appearance of toxic chemicals mixing together? Wouldn't that happen in all humans.
- Master of Science in Biology
- Bachelor of Science
GaiaGirl95 Author
wrote...
10 years ago Edited: 10 years ago, GaiaGirl95
So you think it's cancer?

Evidently it isn't if he isn't dead yet. Correction, cancer does act quickly.

And, if it's not cancer, then it's not a mutation.

Enzyme deficiencies do happen as we age, but how would that account for the sudden appearance of toxic chemicals mixing together? Wouldn't that happen in all humans.

What I think could happen is that too many enzymes are produced in cells, due to a mutation (not all mutations are cancer) the enzymes, by chance, happen to be enzymes which will metabolize their substrate into say, propanal, aldehydes, etc, nasty reactive chemicals prone to reacting exothermically and polymerizing due to increases in temperature. Another mutation in the mitochondria means too much of that enzymes substrate is produced. The mitochondria bursts allowing the enzyme to react with the over abundant substrate, and the enzyme then converts the substrate to these reactive chemicals. A sudden spike in reactive chemicals would be exothermic because they tend to react with any organic material.

Since the enzymes cannot diffuse between membranes, it would keep these separate, so if there's an over abundance of 1 enzyme in the cell and an over abundance of another enzyme (which produces the 1st enzyme's substrate, which when converted by the 1st enzyme, becomes reactive chemicals) in the mitochondria, you could have a situation where you've got two bags which when mixed will produce highly reactive chemicals, if the mitochondria happens to burst.


As far as I'm aware, enzymes do not pass through cell membranes. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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