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hyperspherical hyperspherical
wrote...
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7 years ago
I was looking up intracellular ion related things and I made a chart. My question is why is there so many medicines for taking positive charge out of cells, and why is there not a whole lot of conditions where you need to put positive charge back into a cell?

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TAKE POSITIVE CHARGE OUT OF CELLS
Local anesthetics, Class I antiarrhythmic agents, Various anticonvulsants   sodium+ channel blockers      ex. Lamictal (anticonvulsants)         
Used in the treatment of cardiac arrhythmia                     potassium+ channel blockers   ex. Metformin (sulfonylureas)
Antihypertensive drugs                              calcium+    channel blockers   ex. Amlodipine,Lisinopril (angiotensin-converting-enzyme inhibitors (ACE inhibitors)
Important in creating sweat, digestive juices, and mucus.             chloride-   channel openers      ex. 1,10-phenanthroline, which activates CFTR chloride channels.[1]
------------------------------------------------------------- (dont hear about these too much in medicine)
PUT POSITIVE CHARGE INTO CELLS
Several toxins                                    Sodium+    channel Openers      ex. Aconitine
vasodilator,anticonvulsant,smooth muscle,analgesic                potassium+ channel openers      ex. Diazoxide,Minoxidil,Nicorandil,Pinacidil,Retigabine,Flupirtine
as a possible alternative treatment strategy for LEMS.               calcium+   channel openers      ex. Bay K8644, GV-58
joint and muscular pain                              chloride-    channel blockers   ex. Niflumic acid (The product of this gene (the CFTR protein) is a chloride ion channel)

Lambert-Eaton myasthenic syndrome (LEMS) is an autoimmune disorder in which a significant fraction of the presynaptic P/Q-type Ca(2+) channels critical to the triggering of neurotransmitter release at the neuromuscular junction (NMJ) are thought to be removed.

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wrote...
Valued Member
Educator
7 years ago
Hi there,

Our bodies communicate mostly via positive ions, which are metals in their elemental form. For example, neurons propagate their messages along the axon by releasing and accepting sodium and potassium ions across their membranes -- effectively this charge difference creates the electrical impulse.

It's not that the pharmaceutical companies are doing this on purpose, they're just designing medicines based on how bodies operate.
wrote...
7 years ago Edited: 7 years ago, hyperspherical
Approximately, What is the ph of the inside of a cell supposed to be? With the medicines, for the most part, the cells are having positive charge being removed, so they are trying to get the cell more alkyline? Does drinking a lot of soda with carbonic acid over decades cause issues with cell ph?
Post Merge: 7 years ago

What about applying high voltage negative charge to the body to try and pump electrons back into the body?
wrote...
Valued Member
Educator
7 years ago Edited: 7 years ago, bio_man
Welcome back

Approximately, What is the ph of the inside of a cell supposed to be?

According to Wikipedia, the intracellular pH is around 6.8 due to acid production. It contains low HCO3− levels and thereby at pCO2 above 45 mmHg, the pH can not be 7.4 but much lower.

In the pH range between 6.8 and 7.4, lymphocytes maintain a constant internal pH of 7.17 ± 0.06 pH unit.

With the medicines, for the most part, the cells are having positive charge being removed, so they are trying to get the cell more alkyline?

Not necessarily. Positive ions don't correlate to acidity. The chemical definition of an acid is as follows: an acid is a substance that donates hydrogen ions. Because of this, when an acid is dissolved in water, the balance between hydrogen ions and hydroxide ions is shifted. Now there are more hydrogen ions than hydroxide ions in the solution.

Does drinking a lot of soda with carbonic acid over decades cause issues with cell ph?

When carbon dioxide is dissolved in water, the water becomes more acidic. But this change is only temporary because acid–base homeostasis kicks in. Three of these systems exist in the human body, by the bicarbonate buffer system is most popular and most studied. The phosphate buffer system, and the protein buffer system also play a role. Respiratory compensation and renal compensation are two ways that the body can excrete excess molecules to maintain pH. Acidosis or alkalosis results if the balance is disturbed, but drinking soda water will not be enough to sway your body to these responses.

Quote
What about applying high voltage negative charge to the body to try and pump electrons back into the body?

Electrocution will kill you! 0.1 - 0.2 amps is generally enough to kill you that way.
 
wrote...
7 years ago Edited: 7 years ago, hyperspherical
I was thinking bronsted-lowry acid/base....


But also about the voltage, I had in mind not a lot of amperage flow, but just taking a anode and putting on just enough to deliver a few electrons, not sandwiching between the anode and cathode and causing a current flowing through. I thought it had to be high voltage to have enough pressure to deliver between the two since normally you need a complete circuit for electron flow.
Post Merge: 7 years ago

thanks for the answers btw...
wrote...
Valued Member
Educator
7 years ago
Voltage is a measure of how fast those electrons are flowing, so it wouldn't be a significant measure.

I read somewhere that during electrocution, the channels that allow ion flow are stunted, though I can't back this up with a source at the moment.

According to another article:

Direct exposure of cells in suspension to intense electric pulses is known to produce damages to cell membranes and supramolecular organizations of cells, and denaturation of macromolecules, much like injuries and tears seen in electric trauma patients. Thus, the system has been used as a laboratory model for investigating the biochemical basis of electric injury. An intense electric pulse can produce two major effects on cells--one caused by the field, or the electric potential, and the other by current, or the electric energy.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10842635

I am assuming that you're not interested in electrocution, just moderate electric shock. Regardless, these methods will not create the effect you're imagining.

You're welcome, feel free to ask anything else.

wrote...
7 years ago Edited: 7 years ago, hyperspherical
"Voltage is a measure of how fast those electrons are flowing" - I was thinking voltage is more of how much they 'want' to flow, rather than how fast they are flowing at any particular time. I'll look into that more.

So the high voltage thing was more or less of and idea of how to get more electrons in the body, any suggestions on increasing count of free electrons in body?
Post Merge: 7 years ago

http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/245610/is-voltage-the-speed-of-electrons
wrote...
Valued Member
Educator
7 years ago
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word speed. The voltage is a measure of how much push the electrons have.

So the high voltage thing was more or less of and idea of how to get more electrons in the body, any suggestions on increasing count of free electrons in body?

There is an abundance of electrons in the body already, but so what? They are negligible in the biological sense.

Where are you going with this? I'm confused lol
wrote...
7 years ago Edited: 7 years ago, hyperspherical
yeah, so I seemed to have some intuitive notion that extra free electrons in the body would have health benefits. Like perhaps serving to neutralize free radicals and such although my thoughts are subjective at this point. There seems to be some discussion in health magazines about how bad free radicals are, and how antioxidants are good for you.

So rather than getting free electrons from consumed chemicals, I thought you could get them from another source, like my anode idea.

I have heard of grounding mats and such and not really sure on research about whether they are helpful. (but I don't think the earths negative voltage is enough to really deliver enough electrons to make a difference.
Post Merge: 7 years ago

or I should say potential difference between the body and the earth, rather than the earths negative voltage....
wrote...
Valued Member
Educator
7 years ago
Like perhaps serving to neutralize free radicals and such although my thoughts are subjective at this point. There seems to be some discussion in health magazines about how bad free radicals are, and how antioxidants are good for you.

The only reported substances capable of neutralizing free radicals are anti-oxidants. Replenishing your body with electrons is fake. Essentially, free radicals are formed when weak bonds between atoms within a cell split. Most biological molecules contain paired electrons in the outer orbit but in the case of free radicals, an unpaired electron is alone. I know you'd be tempted to think there is a substance that will fill that hole, but that's not how it works.

Let me know if there's anything else you need
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