Biology Forums - Study Force

The very logic for actual effective democracy implies equality by law and vote, but that is not at stake in the "western" world and instead we have in one or another form elitist plutocracy!, so what are the ways for this fallacy of "democracy for all" to be removed in the euroatlantic realm!?, I'll propose later my opinion but would like to hear opinions from others, even more compared to the biological systems where cells tissues and organs work towards functional organism driven by particular needs and actions ...

Define what you mean by "euroatlantic". Also, explain what you mean by "elitist plutocracy".

The label "euroatlantic" refers to the western "democracies" of Europe and North America, derived from the historical affiliation of european neoplatonists to the atlantean and european mythos, maybe less used term but far more logical than the "western world", to which additionally can be added other adjuncts like euroatlantic determinism etc., also as term is used by the balkan countries for their eu-nato integration i.e. euroatlantic integration tho my emphasis is on the historical niche so would remind on the western neoplatonism as base for the current 'western' political order ...

... order where we can see continuation of wealthy ruling elites (i.e. clans) which directly or indirectly control the political decision making i.e. seemingly independently elected political leaders on west are following "their" agendas and not election promises and programs thus we get plutocrats and plutocracy!, plain example for this would be the establishment enterprise in usA [1 (https://archive.is/b6V53#selection-1435.25-1473.4)][1 (https://defendingthetruth.com/t/trump-the-last-high-centrist-in-usa.127463/post-1650055)] that follow specific agendas which were not selected by popular vote but delegated by some elites behind closed doors eg. Agenda21 [2 (https://youtu.be/gLuOULT62dc)][2 (https://defendingthetruth.com/t/nwo-an-transhumanist-technocracy-or-what.134195/post-1885736)][2 (https://archive.ph/G9E6n#selection-1945.1290-1945.1617)]

Post Merge: 10 months ago

... hm, I've offered broader explanation about plutocracy but should had have used simple one [3 (https://youtu.be/5tu32CCA_Ig)][3 (https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=179924)][3 (https://web.archive.org/web/20140607060807/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3VA2pTI5KE)] practically we are witnessing merger of political and scientific elitism [4 (https://archive.is/CvlQb#selection-4389.447-4391.2)][5 (https://archive.is/GoKhj#selection-6781.21-6781.68)]  i.e. now plutocracy and technocracy have upper hand above democracy usually manipulating the masses by propaganda means, and eventually to this can be added the military elites and their geopolitical agendas [6 (https://politicalhotwire.com/t/how-who-and-why-ww3-started-in-2008.248773/post-8206414)] more than less as such predetermined yet again by scientific buffs as extension arm to the western oligarchs which will never leave stratocracy to take the lead above "their" power share and agendas!, unless current modern empires wipe each other out and some military lab a.i. nested in some generals brain!?

... sorry for these digressions but it could help to answer why citizens democracy is just mirage or fable mids the "western" statism!, anyway this logic asks for chasing solutions how People would take the power back in their hands, for what Direct Participatory Democracy could be the tool, but that could hit stiff resistance and perfidious psyop so the current plutocratic reality would survive the day, or we can expect ww3 spin so further would be suspended the citizens rights and imposed plain instead like now covert authoritarianism, even I expect it could reach level of full blown western totalitarianism if masses reach up to mass citizen disobedience by Jin Sharp blueprint so the euroatlantic determinists would be forced on withdrawal with "their" wrong utopianism!

The problem is that most voters, the vast majority of them, do not know this. Knowing that they can vote for their favorite political candidate to represent them is enough to drive them to vote, as least for local/domestic matters. What happens geopolitically is outside the hands of most elected officials, as you pointed out.


It is not a mirage; votes do have consequences. For example, electing a mayor that proposes higher property taxes will actually work towards making it happen. However, what voters have less control of is how the politician will/can handle foreign affairs. Most voters are OK with that anyway, hence why they don't consult the public when making such decisions :lol:

International affects domestic politics and vice versa, so when some crucial decisions are made then logically citizens should be consulted by referendum if not else what in these interactive times could be achieved easily!, why that is not upgraded as Participatory Democracy obviously its due to the plutocratic nature of the current system that favors the interests of particular  elites, altho in same time in place is huge acting of democratic equality, but if blueprint is athenian or roman "democracy" from antiquity then we could say the current trends are compatible coz just the influential and wealthy citizens could vote (tho this is simplification of their "democratic" processes coz in various time there was different way of decision making in their systems) practically now the senate or the assemblies are more like roman altho acting athenian alike election [1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy#Legacy)][1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pnyx#Athenian_democracy)] yet even in athenian agora not all were equal to vote like women or slaves [1 (https://archive.is/KaGSm#selection-1265.15-1265.430)] thus the question that arises is why "they" are acting an champions of democracy when defacto have plutocracy!?, and some more difficult process for explaining is how so its expected all the rest to follow democratic principles while "they" as ea-determinists are skewing enmasse the same!?, tho what is behavior noticeable in other areas under "their" control [2 (https://archive.is/YwRmG#selection-6447.86-6447.140)][2 (https://biology-forums.com/index.php?topic=1975202.msg5414317#msg5414317)][2 (https://archive.is/MuMeG#selection-3239.241-3239.347)] but to be even worst now looks like that there is already inertia towards technocracy when even more openly will be rigged the current plutocratic reality but also suspended the right of the citizens to question anyhow "their" expertise and agendas, what waits just on the day for next global economic depression (coz whatever global catastrophic reasons political or natural), 1984 comes to mind!

Yes they do, but not immediately, especially in countries that are resource rich (Canada, USA, Russia). People living in a small town, for example, voting to elect a mayor usually only care about local issues. If joblessness is an issue due to foreign affairs (say due to high energy prices), but the mayor offers a solution to the problem, people will vote. Why should a mayor running for a city care to talk to about foreign affairs if he/she have no control over it anyway?

Those looking to be elected are usually driven by a genuine desire to serve their community, state, or country. They believe that by running for office, they can make a positive impact on society and contribute to the betterment of their constituents' lives. Serving as a representative provides a platform to shape and influence policy. By introducing and supporting legislation, they can on behalf of those that voted him/her in to office, address important issues that concern the people they represent. Why does this have to have sinister motives as you're implying?

Needless to say but I imply per'se plutocratic elitism in state politics, altho clannish emergence is not rare occurrence in local politics, simply the process of decision making how is now executed eg. in usA or eU by legalized corruption through the lobbying process defacto favors oligarchs and oligopols or whatever sinister force behind the scenes!, the citizen interests in the euroatlantic realm are low ranking if not inferior regards the chance to have true representation and/or give consent for important local or state issues, for what as I've mentioned referendums should be effective direct democratic tool that would be evoked quickly in these e-times coz the chance of biometric verification, but there are also other open gov. means that can help out in case of transparency and lesser chance for manipulation or misuse of the power by the elected representatives ...

Hm driving force and prime motives for politicians should be to be citizen servants but in reality mids the current "western" neoliberal capitalism what we see are servant of lobbying corruption and whatever elitism that have grip over the economy or military and geopolitics and/or particular needed social order by the very same elites that seek to stay in control as longer "they" can with aim even to upgrade "their" power share as rivaling factions among the euroatlantic determinists!. thus only effective way to be stopped "their" covert authoritarianism is opening of the system by eTOS environment ,,,

There are problems with holding referendums every time the country is in crisis. This is why we elect represents to do the bidding for the people. I am not saying referendums are bad, but organizing a nationwide referendum involves significant logistical challenges and is expenses. It requires setting up voting systems, educating the public on the issue at hand, and ensuring a fair and transparent process. These factors make it impractical to hold referendums frequently, particularly on non-essential matters. Also, it is easy to saw the vote when there are referendums. All you have to do is buy up all the commercial ads to persuade the older people into thinking one way over the other.

What is an "eTOS" environment you mentioned?

Such problems would be typical for the past century but in this one when exist means for online voting with 2fa or 3fa biometric verification exist [1 (https://www.techtarget.com/searchsecurity/definition/three-factor-authentication-3FA#:~:text=2FA%20is%20used%20in%20a%20number%20of%20places%2C,that%20requires%20a%20PIN%2C%20OTP%20and%20fingerprint%20scan.)] even various encryption + extra secured by offline voting terminal [2 (https://defendingthetruth.com/t/adio-fiat-hello-crypto-but-free-decentralized-or-totalitarian-centralized-one.135889/#post-1883574)] thus now think if wanted or needed its way more easier to be organized regular referendums, the problem tho lies in the fear of the elites that with such Direct Participatory Democracy will have far harder job for selling "their" fog and stay hidden when "their" plutocrats mess up something big, when actually it will be harder for "them" to secure whatever wrong agenda "they" have!, tho hacking could be issue even then altho by repeated process eg. voting three different times in the day for same question by same voter to be extra secured the referendum process ...

eTOS is mine abbreviation for Electronic True Open Society [1 (https://archive.is/T3lQz#selection-8717.359-8721.1)][1 (https://defendingthetruth.com/t/could-maga-make-from-gop-right-centrist-party.136278/#post-1876769)][1 (https://archive.is/4vM3M#selection-6593.1-6593.696)][2 (https://archive.is/T2XzP#selection-6711.782-6719.1)][2 (https://archive.is/T2XzP#selection-6191.0-6193.1)] as practical interactive opening of the system so by constant dialog which now dont exist (or its spilled in agitprop mode through tv or vlogs) to be reached as wider as possible transparency and accountability but also right meritocratic evaluation of all experts politicians or citizens that are engaged in politics, and also like that consequently rewarded or downgraded for their achievements as servants of the citizens i.e. in such circumstances would be more factualy seen who is who among the engaged (read devoted and knowledgeable) altho this could be also skewed by a.i. bots [2 (https://archive.is/eSMyr#selection-2461.977-2481.221)] but if the intentions for such opening of the system are coz reaching greater democratic vibe then even debating a.i. bots could be beneficial as check&balance of the experts and their knowledge!, in a way it would be security measure against wrong future technocratic imposition by the elites when all concepts laws and agendas will need to be elaborated publicly and widely through debate so would be seen how who compiled what mids the system!, also it would be fast way for detecting lack of mechanism for implementation of some process or eventual need for upgrade or dismissal,

... in essence eTOS would be opening of the system by Public eForums, ideally institutional + ngo + party ~ eForums, but it could be started with mandatory ngo eforums as public leverage towards greater thematic and expert debate and transparency unburdened from cheap propaganda hype!, with hope that will be recognized by the rest and employed as practical O'Gov approach for system maintenance what eventually is here and there in some form seen as needed [3 (https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15126770#p15126770)][3 (https://archive.is/AOuD2#selection-4893.1-4893.300)] but defacto eForum as eTool is the missing link for True Open Society ... probably for euroatlantic elites its better things to stay concealed and choked as they were coz many wrongness corruption and ideological fallacies that are regularly thrown under the rug could suddenly pop up and reexamined by mass factor of public compacted and archived expertise, yet either "they" will stop act democrats or "their" plutocracy will eat "them" alive once the system went in debacle mode coz whatever reason!, anyway this would be extra mean for restart also as eTOS vibe coz wider and effective engagement among all in politics altho if emf weapons are used in whatever next global war thing would be bit slower around the infrastructure, hm one pc unit per hood will do the job then :D

 

Post Merge: 10 months ago

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... try not to become borgs tho ... What I find interesting is that as direct democracy vibe such eTOS will be beneficial for the elites themselves coz would easily spot which experts have effective will (if You like stamina) in particular field at particular time i.e. the system will be at full charge regards ideas and solutions for particular problems!, thus as elites eventually will have neatly lubricated intellectual force!, ideally citizens as society will have greater benefit from such e-vibe, and if not else with 24/7 expert debate frustrations will be exhausted in right manner by right means instead like now waiting to burst in street rioting and cushioned in commissions behind closed doors!, essentially many now willing to help but not tied to the administration citizens could and will help with their reasoning evaluations and proposals!

On the bad side like this will surface all the mediocrity that now resides in the system as rooted nepotistic tissue of "intelligence" and "effectiveness", what could have bitter taste around the societal perception in context of quality of administering the "western democracies", what eventually can fire back as apathy if things dont get better, altho by default whatever opening of some cancerous organism choked by pride  materialism or laziness will bring awareness for the needed therapy and potentially will for righteous change ahead!, for what foremost needs to be addressed corruption and lawlessness that think it could be achieved by another interesting tool of proposal for reporting crime [4 (https://archive.is/1oAGQ#selection-2625.0-2627.71)][4 (https://archive.is/zm17B#selection-5755.1101-5755.1262)] yeah who where to report elites in "their" misbehavior, hm what could be also leverage for blackmail, eventually like this making from "them" paranoid androids!

... somehow think  concentrated thematic debate like this on institutional party and ngo eforums will bring for sure various ideas worthy for exploring till reaching concept and project or law framework, but who where to stir such e-social-hype, logically smaller countries or in larger on local level, yet somehow everyone waits on some Bukele alike revolutionary on west what by all means could had have been Trump as opportunity yet ge was instantly swayed to follow "their" personality attack and implanting cult smash through the hijacked maga by right wing extremists actually controlled by "them"!, hm maybe now can be from help whatever independent presidential candidate or party by opening public party eforum for expert members to polish the electoral platform in front of all citizens and that would be also good start of showcase how effective etool are eforum ~ if and only if have clever moderation and less than more agitprop vibe mids whatever digressing!

Voting online!? That's ridiculous, would lead to so many problems involving scams and fraud. All voting should be done in-person, unless you're deployed in another country due to war. Even mail-in-voting shouldn't be allowed, let alone having people vote online for major issues.


Doesn't that sort of force people to spend more time online? People who work 8 to 12 hours a day could careless about the issues being presented on an online forum, don't you think? Also, what about the illiterate, who are new to the country and don't speak the native language well enough? Personally, I do not think this is a solution.

And from experience, people who expressive their opinions online usually try to sound smarter than they actually are. In real-life, they wouldn't stand a chance debating the real issues. Reason for this is because online interactions lack the physical presence and direct eye contact found in real-life situations. This absence of face-to-face interaction sometimes leads to a reduced sense of empathy and emotional connection with the target, making it easier for individuals to engage in hurtful behavior without directly witnessing the immediate impact on the victim. This is why it's easier to be a bully online than in real-life

If e-banking is not issue altho dont have biometric verification then e-voting should also be secure process, even more if it is additionally reinsured as I've propose with three time revote so would be evaded hack attacks, depending on what risks are exposed the states it could be arranged further measures eg. palmsecure etc. [1 (http://www.build.mk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3539&KW=palmsecure&PID=227202#227202)] finally if that process is regular then it could be evoked for the same question repeated referendums thus eventual risks will drop by large extent i.e. it would be hard whatever falsification skim to executed again and again!

About online debating, first on eforum there should be rules and moderation thus far less chance for wrong or derailed discussion, but also if on those institutional party and ngo eforums the membership is tied to the academic profession then the benefits will be unimaginable due to the nature of online debate unconstrained from place and mood for debating in person, plus if nicknames are mandatory definitely will be evaded biased debate or egotripping!, surely having chance 24/7 some question to be polished by various experts will speed up the narrowing of the choices of solutions and agreement upon their implementation monitoring and evaluation!

Its quite interesting why eforums are abandoned etool altho have most compact and effectively archived potential, hek its useful for any researcher to have dedicated e-community that will polish his work. good example would be JPF as alternative history researcher [2 (https://forum.gizadeathstar.com/)][2 (https://gizadeathstar.com/about/)] altho his eforum lacks neat categorization of his books and topics but also has loosen moderation thus looks more like widened blog space, yet kudos for his effort to share extra dedicated space where anyone can debate his works online!, hm imagine every natural science project or study has eforum where researchers from all world will debate the findings or results and like that bringing more awareness about the possibilities or mistakes!, even better as compact knowhow will be from benefit to the future collogues as loud collaboration of debate database!

Let's stay on topic here with the original intent of this thread. You asked (paraphrasing here), what's the point of having a democracy when our politicians, regardless who gets voted in, are limited to what they can do given the plurocratic agenda. I think all countries need representatives so that they don't personally have to do the work. Take for example a home owner who wants to make changes to their home. Most homeowners would much rather hire a handyman than to do the work themselves. The same applies with representatives that are elected democratically via votes. We vote in people that we see are capable of keeping the law of the land in check because we are too busy to do it ourselves. Your premise is that they don't have a lot of influence due to plutocrats running the show. I don't think plutocrats care so much about local matters than we're giving them credit for.

Such oversimplification cant excuse the fallacy that the political representatives of the citizens are actually becoming representatives of those enough powerful to lobby out own interests above the majorities will ~ again [1 (https://youtu.be/5tu32CCA_Ig)][1 (https://archive.is/hnBmE#selection-1879.83-1879.94)] eg. immigration favors the corporative need for exploitation but that has negative impact on the minimum wage lever in usA or eU aside that even the basic cultural rights of the immigrants are not respected so deceitful spin about the openhearted intentions [2 (https://apnews.com/article/business-georgia-slavery-forced-labor-migrant-workers-0e0d7235e79a4e216307e007a7aa716b)][2 (https://youtu.be/v58sdtLKCEU)][2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_bilingual_education_in_California)] in essence political representatives didnt obtain consent for anything but collected votes by propaganda promises and in the end usually delivering completely different policies, what gives mirage of democracy an farce an circus an illusion of rightful representation thus at best wrong bragging how the euroatlantic realm is champion of democracy while at worst by trickery peddling the masses towards plutocratic elitist agendas without any consent by the voters eg. about euroatlantic globalization i.e. the path towards merging of usA eU and Canada what is done in plain site but without any wide debate or sincere weighing of the pros and cons [3 (https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179831)]

Do you think elected officials have no influence or power at all? If not, what in your opinion are they capable of where they are not controlled by those higher up in the hierarchy?

Why they would not, after all they are managers of some system, tho not rarely driven by advices whether by experts or friends and/or "influencers" from behind the scenes hierarchy, still having eTOS and eReferendum chance for extra through constant debate acquired advices and eventually on obligatory or consultative e-referendums checking the acceptance of some crucial change by the citizens can and will result in balance if not else eg. the current rioting in France could had have been cushioned if there was such exhaust valves aside that truthful pro and against opinions will be smoothed out by various thematic eforum debate, just how ridiculous is how the same is poured now on the soc.nets (choked by idealess triviality usually) where mids eg. topic like this many will drop with voyeurism or masks solely due to the personal public profile where the ego if not else is restraining many to start thinking out of the box or throwing them in wrong defense or agitprop mode!, sadly but mids all that lost in space hood alike vibe the most creative social or political aware citizens will withdraw and leave the podium on some extrovert attention grabbers which will fight their way to selfdom trough narcissism but what even when those would be correct and effective in their ideas still are getting stuck on the ladder of pride and nepotism if not plutocracy what again sooner or later will lead to bumpy future ahead from whatever political perspective we would observe it [1 (https://youtu.be/6a6kbU88wu0)][1 (https://defendingthetruth.com/t/nwo-an-transhumanist-technocracy-or-what.134195/post-1876141)]

On other hand elitism is not rarely tied in real life to such extroverts thus also in political parties are ending up brainless bragging bulldozers, thus having eTOS vibe as meritocratic lever for selecting the best among the best from every field would be good systematization chance for any society regards intellectual resources and their stamina or where how the same would be boosted, yes someone dont express themselves online well as others yet most of the people through some training get on the e-debating flow, and if that is trained since school time it would bring compact effective societies ...

Believe it or not, please are not much driven by debate and facts as much as how they feel about a topic. One reason for this is that people's pre-existing beliefs and biases can strongly influence their receptiveness to new ideas or arguments. People tend to filter information through their existing worldview, seeking confirmation of their own beliefs rather than being open to changing them. This phenomenon is known as confirmation bias. Thus, if we can somehow present the facts in a meaningful and objective way, you will still have people disagreeing with truthful, yet unpopular ideas. I noticed this first hand before Trump got elected back in 2016. He would make the soundest arguments about topics x, y, and z, and still people would spin it however they like because they simply didn't like him or what he represented. People aren't as logic as you hope them to be. In fact, I'd say upwards of 80% of the world's population is irrational in their thinking, or they barely think at all for themselves.

Hm, I'll say those are quite vague assumptions regards the cognitive capabilities of Mankind in general, defacto as communities since ever council of elders was chosen to lead the tribe, but that dont meant that people couldnt rise to hierarchy through knowledge and skills or that they couldnt speak up, what mids the current circumstances of large societies and supposedly democracy should be even more norm, still while there are various means someone to share his opinion and/or advice what we are lacking now is greater debate vibe for what eforums as etool in these times should be extensively used, but until such etool dont becomes mandatory institutional reality so would be mobilized all the available intellectual power then we will continue to till out in propaganda mode when through vlogs or tv duels as opposite opinion is remembered only the ego or the paid promotions, and instead those to be only narrowed to informative etools of whatever eforum debate sadly but those became prime way for expert
 communication as slow projected one way debate waiting on future ineffective responses on the thrown gloves!, hm I have some feeling as if eforums are intentionally suppressed and forgotten altho have potential for utmost effective expert debate that would be unburdened from biases or propaganda if used clever moderation!, again like that any society would have also good filtration of its intellectual power coz now how things stand many clever people simply refuse to get onboard whatever topic mids soc.nets or tv coz risk to be rudely trashed by whatever opposition to their stance coz the majority of engaged tilt in agitprop mode!, saying that now the current trends are healthy weighing of the secluded expertise and methodologies of system tweaking and maintenance its wrong by all means if we know that not just mids capitalism but also socialism corruption is norm due the closed system, thus one effective opening of any social system is through eTOS vibe, the question is whether some organism is completely choked by junk thus the patient needs to be fully stripped so would be examined by many willing to help with their knowhow or it can afford to stay tightly dressed and open only for academic consultation, tho even in that case it would be beneficial if its mandatory for students (so would graduate) to debate on own thematic academic eforums and sense the need for or see effects of collaboration through debate on particular projects ~ what eventually will serve later as blueprint for the future generations as archived knowhow ... the main problem in all cases as archiving would be risks from emf warfare in whatever next global war but even those could be evaded if in time is addressed the issue and brought risk management solutions for the archive to be restored [1 (https://archive.is/jzwRW#selection-1855.442-1855.517)][1 (https://archive.is/GoKhj#selection-4233.635-4233.805)]-[1 (https://archive.ph/kn3Fe#selection-3795.709-3795.880)][1 (https://archive.is/nOCoz#selection-2203.354-2203.466)] imagine how useful it would had have been if institutional and ngo eforums are mandatory in this context which could serve as base to be jumpstarted the system after whatever cataclysm and how precious would be particular knowhow for whatever natural science!?, hm many probably put credence in a.i. backups now but such hope deprived from emotional intelligence will only lead to further devastation!

You're giving humanity far too much credit. Try living in a multicultural society for a couple of years. Your opinion will change very quickly. Trust me when I say that not all people are built equally when it comes to intellect. You can present some people with the finest proof and facts, and they still won't believe you because they're not wired the same way, perhaps a rational person like yourself, would be. As a college instructor, I interact and speak to people from all walks of life. When I teach the class a lesson, what some students find easy, others wouldn't be able to comprehend even if I spent ten more hours in the classroom...

Hm Hm Hm yes mixing strawberries with ananas goes smooth only in Macedonia di Fruta, tho as macedonian can say multiculty vibe can be also tasty if we contemplate cultural vibes and somehow edible as political too if and when common interests are forced, stil when debate is in question I dont see why productive dialog cant be reached even mids opposite stances, the problem is when that debate goes in assembly tv or soc.nets where propaganda mode is by default norm on top flushed by clannish politicians, instead the same primarily to be ongoing among experts on eforums as constant thematic communication, here I project ngo eforum debate per'se what could be achieved easily if ngo's are by law obligated to have active eforum debate if want to be eligible for state funding!, it would be ideal to exist to those parallel eforums where the rest nonexpert members and/or citizens could reexpert the experts, but for start it would be enough dedicated academic debate to pop up in every field among likeminded what eventually again will bring plethora of different points of view and like that faster polishing of particular issues coz the very nature of constant open for debate etool, but again if there is no neat moderation even on such expert eforums conversation could erupt in egotripping, fo what think good approach would be members to participate only with nickname instead official credentials, altho once someone would link his blog posts so would ease the discussion it will be revealed the identity, but still removing the name bring some less stiff attitude among discutants eg. among ex-professor and ex-student in a way it would be exempt the atmosphere of whatever elitism or expectations, eg. in Your case just when You've mentioned that You are c.instructor suddenly Your stance looks more firm altho in my opinion is solely incomparable generalization coz I am pointing on expert debate i.e. we are all hungry to see same weight intellectual ufc alike clash of opinions, now instead we are collecting them piece by piece from vlogs or tv and clashing them in our heads weak after weak but what would be far more productive and effective if it was compacted and constant on eforums while on blogs/vlogs or in media to be presented review of all the steaming on particular thematic eforum ...

... think this next quote with remove typo should be memorized and analyzed i.e. why and how ngo what about institutional eforums if become wide spread reality will release us from ridiculous bullying of propaganda machines usually n hands of the plutocrats in need to impose own unpopular agendas, eg. why and how full digital economy where needs to be implemented or what would be effective risk management, something that a.i. cant anticipate simply coz cant collect all necessary data, but even if it could again if Life would be leveled to such mechanistic living by itself will implode as we know it, hm there is "someone" actually that dream about such homo'silicone shift, and thats why we need immediate 24/7 weighing of the bioethical and ecoethical risks of transhumanism as genetic and bionic revolution slipped now covertly in front of our eyes without any liability on top but masked by agitprop means how "they" know what "they" do, yeah  from malthusian perspective surely!

I do like the idea of being anonymous when presenting ideas, but that's only really possible on an "eforum" platform.


When debates are conducted on live television/broadcast, we don't see the propaganda until the very end, when they have a panel of so-called experts to analyze what happened. The same can happen online however, where people go to twitter to project their own interpretations about what had been said to their own followers. Therefore, it is impossible for the water not to get muddy in either way.

Another issue I have with complete anonymity is how do you take the person making a post seriously if you don't know how they look and where they come from? For example, if I were a 10 year old making rational posts online, would you take me as seriously as an adult whose been married for x years and has fathered three children?

Logical remarks, but if You noticed I am suggesting selection even in ngo party or institutional eforums where first there would would be 1. expert eforum attended by verified member and eventually to it 2. parallel eforum where other nonexpert members and/or citizens would had have opportunity to reexpert their debate, double eforum so also by neat moderation even nonexpert opinion will be kept cohesive and productive, think alone just expert eforums will push the rest to tilt again on soc.nets and like that again missed opportunity to be seen some out of the box brainstorming ideas that as compacted in thematic eforum will stay for long as idea pool if not else ...

... about anonymity that could be smoothly resolve like here on BiFo where the members could decide when is more appropriate to share their ideas as own official stance or just dive in loosely without risking to stain their name ...

... removed typos haha in essence not all people have will time or focus so always would kept high lexical bar in their eforuming thus its better for their flow of debate to go anonymous on ngo or party eforums while on institutional eforums eventually to be mandatory credentials, but even there coz risks of animosity or ridiculing its better to be kept nicknames while moderators for granted would know who is participating coz in institutions responsibility would go further than debating ideas but also active projects laws etc.

Probably to the above point another that could be added is the need for stimulated debating culture [1 (https://archive.is/utAKl#selection-3479.0-3479.276)] if we want to get maximum from etool like eforums!, altho by clever moderation that too could be managed in various ways eg. if some eforum member (expert or not) has good points but rude language there should be rule that mods keep the right to "purify" the post even that was intellectual rights breach tho one more excuse for having nicknames instead real names coz the sake of fluid constructive debate ...

... also experts should be stimulated to have blogs and vlogs and footnote them as broader explanation for some point so the debate flow would be unburdened from long posts, or such vlog/blog option could be added to the eforum as platform or linked tool at disposal ... I'll advise platform one for dedicated local eforums or having archived transcript if using yt so would be kept the shared vlog content for good eg. [2 (https://archive.is/0GRwk)]

And maybe from the far side of useful integration of all citizens even on eventual parallel/double eforum for nonexpert members could and should be introduced Chatbox plug [3 (https://blog.discourse.org/2022/08/discourse-chat-is-now-available-try-it-out-today/)][4 (https://forum.gizadeathstar.com/t/more-ideas-from-new-member/8135/57)][4 (https://archive.is/SuaKZ#selection-6733.8-6737.469)] for every thread (even every post [3 (https://forum.gizadeathstar.com/t/mind-manipulation/6875/68)] useful for keeping digressing compact too) so all not willing to debate eloquently would tilt free in trivial soc.net alike mode with their responses, plus where as thread'chat'box it could end up all problematic posts (if there is policy of no'editing'posts by mods) as kind of balance between stiff moderation and frustration built up by members coz deleted posts, simply it should be respected the spent time of all, but also like that exercising extra democratic vibe even on ngo party or institutional eforums, hm someone will say such approach would not be clever for institutional eforums yet think that would be useful for the institutional managers to analyze their effectiveness or public opinion about its work what eventually can bring motivation for correction also maybe by the citizens advices how where thing could be changed, coz many times eureka rush comes from people working in garage but having no means to share their exaltation will end up as evaporated chance for all!, tho the problem there could be corruption or laziness bashing of the institution that could be demotivating but also choking for all that work there, thus it should be seen which institutions when for what could be opened to direct communication with citizens while mostly opened for direct communication (on laws reforms and projects) with ngo's ... hm maybe citizens could benefit if their case (all cases) are public by consent (as option) where it could be opened thread where some citizen could invite some expert to communicate publicly (or not) regards the stalled case coz more quickly resolved issues, eh just how many times I would be waiting in vain for answer coz someone forgot where is the key of the drawer!, yep ideally if all institutional work is upped online the system would get sober solely by shame of such nakedness i.e. all will know why administration cant keep normal pace of servicing of the citizens and like that also chance citizens to be helped easily by experts or the institutions by ngo's or other solidary collogues around the state ... probably for institutional eforums stiff debate moderation will be norm by default but having thread chatbox could keep frustrations articulated in the right corner coz someone has bad temper as citizen and need bin where to dump his frustrations while if that is done in his main thread surely that will be penalized by fine so would be trained normal e-communication by future widely open institutions and citizens!

I'm not sure how this insight contributes to the overall purpose behind starting this thread, that is, "Why the current euroatlantic democracy is farce!?" If as you say democracy is farce, how is conducting eforum debates, where full transparency is promoted through logical arguments, going to change the fact that it is all a lie?

Huston we have a problem :D but how things stand the farce is going beyond transparency as mean for cornering corruption which as we can see is legal on "west"!, on the far side of that democratic farce its waiting transhumanism malthusianism utopianism and etc ism of the euroatlantic determinists to consume us all, so either we will mobilize ourselves or wait to see what "they" will bring as a.i. technocracy ahead!

Trust me I am ontopic with these digressions, tho maybe You are used to clown politics and expect that I will dive in arsenic style instead firefighting one ... I'll try to be as short as possible while repeating myself in attempt to narrow mine problem solution approach ...

1. There is no true representation but by lies collected votes and no responsibility day after the mandate, where its not word for the percentage of efficiency of the promised, but usually complete opposite outcome thant the promissed by the representatives, aside that by trickery are pushed various unpopular laws or projects!

2. Currently the only means that are at disposal of citizens to respond to the fakery of representation is to file court appeal or wait parties to negotiate deal after eventual pressure by protests, but what again how is rolling behind closed doors eventually leads nowhere or the justice is served to slow, so at best we have stalled democratic process in places where corruption hasnt paralyzed the political elites, in reality now what would be the worst case we have stew of corrupt slow system for any righteous change!

3. Logic response to such swamp of wrong elitism is as much as possible opening of the system, what could be done by Direct Participatory Democracy for what except e-referendums per'se we need constant 24/7 expert debate so the mud would be cleared and citizens quickly get unbiased stance about the issues on which would need to give referendum consent constantly as legal mean for reaching at least balance between the current plutocracy and the later democracy!

4. Altho if the expert debate continues in agitprop mode what will depend on the modertion policy mostly (as is now case trough the current e-vibe solely on tv or vlogs/blogs on top slow back and forth communication) even through ngo or party eforums and constant thematic eforum debate surely citizens again will tilt out in wonder which position is the correct one, but at least would be seen fast grinding of opposite opinions and easier removing wheat from the chaff coz now citizens run in circles and slowly wait to built a true picture whats at stake for particular societal problem and as consequence by "appeal to emotion" giving their votes or support!

5. In case of constant eforum clash among experts first we would need to accustom on all the intellectual egoism where till its built steady atmosphere things will flow guess bit edgy, eg. what could be sensed on current videochats where opposites meet eg. JayD vs heretics in context of Orthodox Christian Apologetics [1 (http://)] but where it could be noticed that the level of expertise matters thus thats why think its utmost important to be seen 24/7 expert debate on thematic eforums but among equally knowledgeable members, more or less where however slow would look that will flow of debate stil when is constant it will get own elegance of polishing ideas once moderated correctly leaving no room for boredom trivialization wining or bickering and/or intentional propaganda techniques but per'se pushed focus on the scientific method or creativity of problem resolving!, what sooner or later depending of the amount of eTOS dimensioning will dismantle the current farce of democracy by normal observation instead like now further and further stucking in live plutocratic sand!

Post Merge: 10 months ago

missed the JayD link here is it [1 (https://www.youtube.com/live/8PrmVBFX6lg?feature=share)]


Just how wrong time consuming is debate among literate and half literate people!, not that exceptionalism should be norm but when scientific method is in question the attempt to merge different opinion debate with different standardization on top imagine without neat moderation it could get really devasting even expert eforums where reality, what tho if its not case on eventual parallel citizen eforum to it will be issue again!, thats why ngo eforums should be norm so particular filtration should be present so would not be choked the useful idea flow!, eg. mine nonexpert reasoning its maybe ok now coz lack of debate, but if particular expert land in this thread surely I'll tilt around if not else terminology once the flow gets in deeper waters, altho the thread title is enough vague so I could derail the discussion however I want, and thats why we need thematic eforums eg. Political Science One with subforum dedicated solely for Direct Participatory Democracy where in separate threads will be examined e-referendums and eTOS in more theoretical and practical way ... still parralel eforums would be useful so those that mastered some field and dont have degree could get onboard instead like now tilting on soc.nets in vain among al the triviality, simply we need mobilization as societies so would tackle all the temptations ahead!, even elites will benifit from such eTOS vibe but hek "they" are afraid that in such circumstances "their" current buried corruption or laziness will reach an 24/7 wide and loud exposure!

Voting on a referendum only gives you the results of the most popular opinion, but the most popular opinion isn't what's best for everyone. If city dwellers vote yes on a referendum, it may affect people elsewhere living in suburbs or rural areas. Just because there are more city dwellers, the votes of the other group will not be equally represented. Hence, there is a flaw in this idea.

Further, you talk about the all-encompassing power of the elite. Yet, you are fine with using technologies that can easily be tempered with. How can you trust the elite - whom you claim to be all-powerful and thus can easily manipulate electronic results - and at the same time advocate for a system that falls right into their hands (assuming all that you're saying is correct)?

As Stalin put it: "It's not the people who vote that count; it's the people who count the votes."


Debates can drag on for hours. No one is going to sit through and read every post while they can be using that time to help support their family, go to work, build a shed, etc. This idea of writing all these ideas down isn't new; visit any official website of a political party, and it will state what their positions are on topics that are most important to the population they are representing.

Referendums could be obligatory or consultative, it depends what kind of framework would be employed as direct democratic tool!, saying its possible ultra equal vote its even beyond utopia, simply majority should have advantage of democracy, otherwise we would need to contemplate anarchy and sooner or later again will pop up need for some common order, but so would not dive in theoretical propositions I'll just say if there is eTOS Vibe around then surely mids eventual Direct Participatory Democracy will be addressed Ethics as prime norm  in which case minorities would be secured from bullying!, also we Dont Need To Be Afraid from the chance to be restrained wrong elitism by Referendums coz that is the only normal way past beyond the current pressuring by protests and rioting which for granted will explode mids whatever future crisis!, such tool will actually secure the system from collapse stagnation or totalitarianism coz in crisis elites are showing "their" true nature!

Hm maybe I leave impression how "they" are metastasized tissue but that dont means it cant be stopped or removed!, yet for such stunt we need opening of the system!, and above all constant on the go consultation among most versed experts that will fine tune the healing or chopping resonance!, alone emergence of expert ngo eforums will start that process of opening, and its potential that can signal to the parties to follow!, eventually its question whether such institutional opening will become case, but if some state wants to mobilize its intellectual pool and start cornering corruption eTOS vibe would be necessary!, small states on this behalf have advantage tho ...

The idea about eTOS is defacto unburdening of all from the current dissonance of psyop debate that rolls on media vlogs/blogs and soc.nets, in practice if the right man polish publicly the right topics 24/7 as dedicated experts ideally in ngo's where same field opposites will clash their reasoning, like that effective solutions will pop up more quickly than now!, surely only knowledgeable from the field academicians and citizens will follow that debate while media will paraphrase the outcome for the rest to get informed what could come up from those ideas, surely parties will further use that idea pool for making projects and laws, altho ngo's by themselves can do that to by direct participation in the system as experts!, in essence the current public debate is too short and too biased thus constant dedicated debate on ngo eforums will alleviate it on normal scientific and democratic level instead the current technocratic and plutocratic dissonance of wrong trials and errors when few experts decide what and why should pass consulting mostly their "lobbyist"!

Odiseizam (https://biology-forums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=993690) to be honest, after reading your response, you didn't counter any of the things I mentioned. You didn't give any insight on weight votes, or how the integrity of votes will be protected, or how ineffective online debates are for the average Joe. All you're doing is using fancy slang words
with "isms" attached to them to reiterate your thoughts without really defending them.

You assume how I imply that "they" could easily manipulate the voting, altho I've earlier pointed that there are ways how this to be prevented by 3fa authentication!, and so would not repeat myself I've just said Dont Be Afraid from corrupt political cancer coz it can be chopped or fried out by eTOS vibe ...

About the average Joe as You label the citizens what would be trivialization of their rights, he or they have right to full transparency what could be achieved only if expert debate exist as constant clash of opinions on thematic eforums where will be exposed more factually why some policies are against their interests, something that currently is not case coz not every expert is willing to stroll in the current by propaganda choked media and soc.nets where not rarely get ridiculed by halfliterate even illiterate if not corrupt opposition, respect to all that can find will to jump in all that mess for common good!, thats why suggested JayD good example with his open live vlog sessions where can call whoever wants regards Christian Apologetics but where is instantly obvious what is expert knowledge and what laymans one!, check them out its really hilarious [[url-]1[/url]] now imagine when bulk of experts will constantly polishing studies projects laws in its own field of interest surely like that many things will get way clear than now when behind closed doors are packaged issues and just dropped for government implementation without any preexisting public debate or when exist usually lasts few days when actually is thrown only promotion of the project or law!, simply the majority of experts are removed from the decision making process and thats why I propose way around the current elitism in form of mandatory ngo eforums, aside the chance that those that are abroad as expats can also contribute to their former colleagues back home!, plus such momentum will be good knowhow database for the future colleagues, and above all the system will have 24/7 fact check community if not else!, tho believe there will be various benefits from such reality!

Again all that debate will be followed and simplified by the media so citizens would get the gist of it, while if there are parallel eforums to those expert one then also citizens or journalists will have opportunity to reexpert the main debate!, now lets say this was happening then how elites will infiltrate or control the narrative, hm surely bots will drop in without hesitation but whatever current spins will be very difficult to be imposed by simple trickery as is now case eg. with the kgbt agenda etc. etc. simply just by starting such ngo eforum vibe opening of the system is inevitable and sooner or later that will lead even to institutional eforums where ngo's will debate the administration or politicians so would be reached indeed smoother run of the machine!, as I've said smaller states can release such reform instantly if understand that mids the next global financial crisis will drop in further problems than nowadays thus it would be logical now to bring this kind of societal risk management if not else so all frustrations will be canalized in right manner instead on streets, coz only through equal reassessment by all available expertise can be reached balance and commitment for joint push towards whatever needed progress or simply basic servicing!, guess in such circumstances citizens will get also proactive and volunteer more frequently for the good of their communities, what tho also through constant debate can be boosted!, is this fancy talking hm dont know, just share my opinions how we can start behaving like beehive instead corrupt mosquitos!, maybe You are afraid to debate equal in Your own field of expertise coz that is energy consuming task, but I am sure there are many that with smile will accept to help their own societies if there is arranged effective debate space for that!

It's not about the authentication technology that I'm concerned about, it's more about how many of those votes are legitimate, and how many end up not getting registered or counted.

Now, let's assume expert debate is conducted. How do you ensure the average Joe will care to listen to both sides of the argument? Old people, for example, are usually set in their ways, and don't care to listen through all the bullshit, as most of them know none of it matters -- that is, they have the mentality that they've lived through it all and don't expect any meaningful changes. Anyway, regardless of how clear the arguments are presented and shown, those in power will always deliberately try confusing their citizens to keep them in a state of confusion, as depicted in the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyop0d30UqQ

Through constant thematic debate I am certain as process e-voting can be secured by further means, think I've mentioned multiconfirmatory voting eg. three times a day on the same question, in which case it would be easily seen if hack was executed coz it would be almost impossible or meaningless to be hacked such system and not to be noticed sooner or later, aside that if eReferendums become regular occurrence additionally will be demotivated whatever hacker to control the Direct Participatory Democracy as process!, its simple it wont hurt if its tried, tho if its tried in wrong way could discourage its usefulness, and thats why first it would be needed wide and long public tweaking hopefully on independent ngo eforum ...

Regards eventual psyop or agitprop spins that are currently part of every "western" society, again think if its introduced eTOS vibe probably these issues will more strongly addressed, coz now like this "exposed" on docus or attention grabbing videos could only provoke that attention but not scientific evaluation of some theory, and if we wait the same anytime soon to be addressed by the academia hm yeah we will wait in vain!, so there are no other means but such observations to be tested through constant dedicated expert debate, and I really believe if expert ngo eforums became mandatory reality that eventually we will come to thematic forums like political propaganda and ss'psyop to!, but foremost we need instant focus on economical and social issues thus I have huge expectations that eTOS vibe will be recognized as true chance for intellectual mobilization in every place, in the end from it if neat moderation exist will benefit all, even apolitical or indifferent citizens coz in question would be expert voluntarism (reward for the engaged would be the chance for free promotion of their expertise thus inviting for all in need) while citizens could always have place where to seek answers if are bothered by some issue!, simply closed and choked system by corruption cant be healed otherwise but just through right kind of opening, in essence as independent it is as it will be unbiased diagnosis and prescriptions, so ngo eforums should lead the eTOS way tho it will be reached zenith once they will start to interact with the parties and the system!

... again Citizens dont need to be followers of those eforums, but journalists who inform them whats happening will have far clear perspective for elaboration, while in same those that are concerned by some field could always check the public ngo eforums for verification!, in essence it would be useful young academicians to be part by default of the parallel eforums every in its own field of specialization and to that to be motivated by universities if want to pass a year thus it could be mobilized many to think around thematic problems and like that contributing to the society!, also citizens can have always space to ask for advice there so if not else it will become free tip service which now is misused lucratively by many i.e. for simple advices milking money without guilt!, anyway even for eTOS first its needed some wide debate before its laid mandatory ngo eforum rule so would be stimulated such vibe!, tho from such reform probably will benefit whatever small party that will be not afraid to open by itself own eforums so would mobilize attention and invite independent experts to reevaluate their political platform, or even better shaping it together!

For the mentioned agitprop video as digression think its not so strong counterargument, whats the point to keep silent and let things roll in spinderela mode!?, but we can examine it in another propaganda thread where primary the "western" democracies should be on the pillar coz the russian one is young and dont bears the same weighing as are those that spin how are champions of democracy!, plus Russia dont hide that its still in the vortex of autocracy coz simply after all the past corrupt western infiltration and reshaping of the system it cant afford another way for compactness and effectiveness than stiff rule!, on other hand "west" due to the false claim for democratic stamina needs to be exposed and healed or will end up even in greater authoritarianism simply coz masses will not hesitate to challenge the fake representatives and for that have even tradition of revolutions tho fake one to!, so if eTOS vibe will emerge somewhere for that think the right conditions can be found on "west" but hm is "west" up to that challenge dont know!

Maybe most useful occurrence as etool would be if eforums become trend for the academia where I would be glad to see debate eg. about the gaslighted "western" narrative of humanism in context of the inevitable need for democracy to end up in utopian technocracy where for granted will emerge "scientific" dictatorship (read neopagan one) [1 (https://youtu.be/48EgCfdOR0w)][1 (https://archive.is/SuaKZ#selection-2417.261-2417.394)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX5QuSKuLiY

imagine authors defending their books on vlog debates if not eforums!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju7j4CY4CQI

... eh I would really like to see deconstruction of Jays Analysis about the western enlightened elites their agendas and ideal (check his n'w'o agenda decimation [1 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrZBAO028RqQX-h3X2NXtTkxSGG3ibZQI)][1 (https://archive.is/eSMyr#selection-7781.146-7781.220)]) i.e. humanists to oppose his reasoning or defend their fallacies of guided by "reason" path towards utopianism!, but hek we dont have public mainstream debate among themselves what about to welcome opposition for challenge!, tho how among themselves as experts to get factchecked if there are not parallel eforum to any eventual future expert one of theirs where eg. knowledgeable people like JayD would reexpert their knowhow or stamina!?, ah 21st century maybe all waiting first to get borgged down and then after to step out and debate about the side effects!?, hm I do recommend biologists through ethical prism first to get engaged in evaluation of transhumanist trends seen also through sociopolitical prism for what this eforum could serve as good pivot for now, but who how to mobilize attention here!?, hm maybe eventual eU grant will do the job so would be offered some rewards for participation of famous academicians just so would be built up debate hype!?, hm has BiFo any ngo alike ambitions, what would be norm for eU funding eligibility!, altho it could be managed such hype through Patreon alike crowdfunding!

Just watch the last video you post. Thanks for sharing, it brought light to many of the ideas you've shared.

Curious, though... Why would these "evil" elites outline their plans in a book that is accessible to literally anyone that can read? Wouldn't you want to keep your evil plans a secret? Personally, I think these were just ideas not to be taken seriously. I'm certain they were written for the sake of popularity and fame. Also, I wouldn't take "Jay Dyer" too seriously either if he's advocating for the use of supplements. The fact that he says he uses them must be a total lie, and if he's lying about that, then he also must be lying about a lot of other things.

That would be personal assumption whether he is lying but resting solely on prejudice I'll guess and not on particular argument!?, why he is advertising supplements, hm that was guess only viable way to fund his dedicated vlogging!, now think has other means like selling lectures or get funding from his 2nd half shows for members of his rokfin account ... anyway making argument from one video how ea-determinists are this or that nor from my side would be substantial nor from Yours as debunking of my proposition, thats why I am providing additional footnotes that if You had have time to check them would grasp that euroatlantic elites has particular agendas and neopagan ideal for reaching heaven on earth and superhumanity what would be utmost opposite to the Christian Ethos and the majority of citizens on west who are Christians!, and thats why we need clarification through dedicated expert debate coz nor I will nail "their" stamina in right way nor Jay will convince someone by one way communication on vlogs, but we need to see clash of academic thought through correctly moderated debate which if happens as active 24/7 eforum conversation among knowledgeable I really hope that ea-elites per'se will grasp that cant behave as "they" are now trying to impose wrong determinism by trickery towards own in epistemiological error ideals!, tho also many will wake up to the fact that are pulled for nose to work out for "their" wrong ideals due to wage slavery or brainwashed scientific mindset!, probably I would had have never throw such anamnesis but after got certain that neopaganism is main fuse in humanism and now science drown in its fallacies and exceptionalism so with clear conscious can even label the current basis and goals of the modern science is put in mould to chase "their" heaven'on'earth!

• Kudos to JayD (https://rokfin.medium.com/the-unique-perspective-of-jay-dyer-exploring-philosophy-theology-and-popular-culture-a5cc953ccbdb) for his effort coz all I am implying he is exposing it factually as existing skim, still we need versed expert debate so these propositions would be fact checked by particular scientific method, when I am certain it would get even greater weight!

Now, if You have time to analyse what is the cause and roots of all scientific inertia on west You'll come easily to conclusion why "they" dont hide "their" ideals or how actually can manipulate our reality and not be opposed!, first of all neopaganism surfaced through vatican universities and then after consumed the european medieval elites while day after got compact and pushed overthrowing of Christianity where it could whether by force or subversion what culminated with the enlightenment era and standardization as of its theology [1 (https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15196139#p15196139)][1 (https://archive.is/99Zso#selection-1425.9-1425.72)] so as machine trying to stir by particular covert means particular neopagan goals [2 (https://historum.com/t/nationalism-and-its-goals.187222/post-3400743)][2 (https://archive.is/99Zso#selection-2267.92-2279.71)][2 (https://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15265809#p15265809)] and seen as circumstantial causality its easy to be recognized how humanism became "their" tool for chasing those goals on scientific level and that to be projected as blueprint for indoctrination and following on all levels from philosophy till education [3 (https://archive.is/eSMyr#selection-7705.184-7705.242)][3 (https://archive.is/eSMyr#selection-9179.2-9179.101)] what maybe didnt reach effectiveness but shows that exist particular inertia and effort for reaching neopagan utopia since bacons'new'atlantis onward and what its just upgraded from century to century or in the past one from decade to decade in its repackaging!, check the BertrandR work or all 100+ important scientific books that project whats ahead of us [4 (https://youtu.be/SvjmRXtDn-8)][4 (https://forum.gizadeathstar.com/t/confirmation-they-are-listening-to-a-program-called-sentient-world-simulation/10739/3)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPWkPEb8rPc

• ... he is hilarious indeed with his cheerful funkopop mask, making tho like that "their" perversions of elitism stupidity of neopagan exceptionalism!, practically the unesco agenda by itself its the last straw that gives highlight to the link between those transhumanist blueprints and the current geopolitical reality we live in [4 (https://archive.is/GoKhj#selection-6781.2-6781.68)] and at least we need to question "their" wrong fake and born in error utopianism!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz4c_k9UOeo

Try dont be ignorant about JayD try listen his n'w'o vlogs while recreate eg. ping pong even virtual one [5 (https://www.curve-ball.org/play-curve-ball/)][5 (https://www.engineering.com/GamesPuzzles/Curveball/tabid/4680/Default.aspx)] btw sorry for this last loosen digression but has point that one dont need to debate with twisted shots altho can point if not else defocusing like that, focus on the play of arguments it could be more fun and informative dialog as deconstruction of my main premise that hypocrisy is greatest "western" ea-determinists luxury exercised above the ruled that supposedly live happy and fulfilled mids "their" fallacy of democracy!

There are been opposition since the moment of its conception. These attacks against Christians is nothing new. Interestingly, it was the Jews that crucified Christ (or collectively the sin of man); a significant majority of the elite happen to be Jewish too -- coincidence?

On a side note, I don't mind content creators soliciting products, but I do have a problem with someone lying to me. We are talking about a learned individual that spends all his time studying matters. All of these supplements are produced in a lab, all of their components are artificial -- it literally falls in the foot steps of those whom you call the "elite". He is deliberately misleading those who watch him by saying so-and-so do such-and-such. He might have an excellent track record and an extensive library, but how virtuous is he?

I'm not saying what he's stating about what these elite have written is factually incorrect. No, but what I am proposing is that everyone, especially the rich want to be heard and be remembered / famous. Thus, going back to my original premise, why should any of this be taken seriously?

How we would know he lied that that supplement is boosting testosterone, yet again that was his choice how to fund his vlogging what think its not anymore case, surely such consumeristic spin would be mistake from ethical aspect in context of his apologetics if he wanted to leave spotless expertise, yet that suggests how its utmost painful to become active selfemployed vlogger nowadays :)

... still that should not be prejudice not to look up his reasoning, after all its word for modern alike radio shows that can be listened while at work or while relax with pong game in Your spare time ...eh  if only there were such interactive experts elaborating own knowledge and/or exploring fallacies in some scientific field!, if so probably many follower will raise their knowledge bar ...

About Jews, hm, my understanding is that they are hijacked and misused by "european neopagan elites" for "which" they are just cannon fodder when its needed!, even as medieval european bankers they were "their" stooges, and even nowadays that is case!, hm I'll say this kind of digressing will lead in chasing culprits for the farce of western democracies but that will not bring solutions how the same to reach its true modern meaning!

About Jay, hm I've used his example just coz he is fun for following coz his comedian alike style of vlogging, as more appealing vlog blueprint for the younger audience, the point tho is that we lack local or international expert debate by such knowledgeable people for what etool like eforum can bring prosperity for every society in every field!, simply now we have only cacaphony of opinions poured on soc.nets or agitproped through media, and thats really misfortune knowing in which century will live and what kind of means for communication we have!

Now, imagine full blown expert debates on at least ngo eforums, imagine thats happening here eg. on topic about viruses [1 (https://biology-forums.com/index.php?topic=2054205.0)] but among the very proponents of that same theory and the mainstream experts!, so from such eTOS mood could benefit science to and not just societies that tilt around particular elitist agendas or communities around local sociopolitical issues!, yep it would be utmost useful future academicians to be stimulated on eforum debate if not else on their own universities, as I've proposed encouraged on that by norm for graduation pass, in which case they will expand their focus even on topics that are complementary but are not their main field of interest, and above all easing out the process of studying, just how many  Q&A threads burst on BiFo that could be further debated around the logic or the scientific method that lead to them yet what here is not case coz simply drop students for hit and run answers instead debate so would get deep understanding from particular problem solution topic!

we have had a far share of members that have been genuinely interested in the subject they were studying, but as you pointed out, the vast majority of them only seek to gain an answer, ask a question, and never to return. That's because schools force students to take courses these have no grounded interest in studying, known as general education classes. These courses range from psychology, sociology, or whatever you can think of packaged into a 3-month course/semester. Again, this goes back to what I was saying earlier, that in real-life, people are simply not interested in politics because they know change to the degree politicians describe is unattainable. Anyone who puts their faith in a political figure is bound for disappointment. Thus, whether you have an official platform where debate is central to its purpose, the hard part is getting people to tune in, read the details, and make an honest decision for themselves. Unless there is a popular candidate, no one really cares that much about politics, especially in developed countries where things practically run themselves

Again that would be subjective opinion until we dont see full blown eTOS vibe ... from experience I can lay firm claim that constructive eforum debate even among halfliterate like me can bring clarity on some issue, what about if in the same take part experts ... now, are people hungry for clarity think yes, but now they are getting it from soc.nets or media where mostly flows propaganda or triviality of expertise!, and if masses had have chance to get informed from expert eforum debate it will, especially if those eforums are thematic eg. local urbanism or local education or local syndicalism etc. etc. surely not all we follow such debate extensively but journalists will make such expert polishing of some topic more cleaner, in essence mids such debates should pop up extra ideas how particular community to cope with some problem maximizing its resources and will, what would be even more interesting is when expat experts will join their colleagues and share their new experience or unburdened from plutocratic blackmail will point why where the system policies got stuck in corruption nepotism laziness etc. anamnesis that will be never shared by the domestic experts ...

So Your argument address per'se masses as actively engaged on eforums while my take is we need per'se active expert eforum debate, altho it should be offered opportunity masses to participate along the same through parallel eforums attached to the expert one, what practically will calm whatever anger in debate mode eg. for important social issues, almost like intellectual exhaust valve that will stop wrong street steaming promptly!, and if like that are channelized all kinky social topics think it could be reached some kind of deelitazion of western societies coz elites would have huge headaches to control such narrative and spin it in plutocratic waters!

About students not having interest in their science, normally rookies would behave like that, but if graduates are stimulated on debate by their own universities if want to get diploma, then things will start to roll n right direction regard more deeper exploration and concise understanding of the studied science!, yeah its always easier to learn once You are unburdened from deadlines so in essence if such eforums existed maybe day after some graduate will come back to dive in some topic more dedicated than earlier ...

... On the hm side I'll say chasing full blown eTOS vibe could be wrongly stirred if a.i. is left to moderate such eforums thus first of all there should be particular ngo debate about the right way of arranging and maintaining such vibe!, for what probably it would be good academicians to start talking about coz after all it should be mechanism that will mobilize all available (and willing to help its society) intellectual power!, for what also good motivation could be certain subsidizing maybe in form of free internet or free public transport for those that will waste their spare time on ngo or institutional eforums etc. alike rewarding system at least so Young Academicians wood hook to the vibe ... btw dont underestimate the will of the people to be zoonpolitikon, normally that many are indifferent and many only from greed motivated to help out own communities, but also there are many that are willing to participate informally yet coz dont have such mean as eTOS vibe but must get in political party or movement thus refuse to get loud through blogs or vlogs hek there scarcity even from experts vlog/blogging, but if its introduced correctly managed debate realm I am certain many will find time to share their ideas positions and knowledge!, think even the system by itself is hungry for such data to, but the current plutocratic fears from opening are blocking such need!, altho it takes some showcase somewhere so things would start rolling!, and voila think nice intellectual avalanche will follow!. the question is are we have enough time before we are captured by ea-determinists technocracy when will be suspended the rights of freethinking of the citizens by the western neobolsheviks!?

The problem again is the closed system and the plutocratic misuse mids the same, yes there is some transparency, tho by constant expert eforum debate the same will push the transparent bar as wide as possible and as result execution of corruption less probable, at least will risk only those with criminal mindset instead like now whoever managed to grab office chair!, hm maybe I am too optimistic about the effects of such eTOS vibe, but if not else we would see who is worthy among the experts and how they are pulled by the plutocratic centrifuges once their colleagues will publicly start to tame their projects topic by topic 24/7, and defacto mids such circumstances selfcensuring and profesionalism will also rise on the part of the closed door experts, hm eventually they will drop on the ngo eforums to seek for opinions and advices if there are no institutional eforums!

https://youtu.be/Mvh4o6x3-GQ

blackrock, vangaurd, etc., owns pretty much everything.

so ya...

Not fully nailed plutocratic exposure, LaryF is just spokesperson for his shareholders, so ask Yourself which banks own blackrock and vanguard, after that which boards are in which pocket among european nobility etc. etc. defragmentation till we come to the band of euroatlantic determinists!

Still this digression would be too offtopic if left unchecked in context of eTOS i.e. how differently to be reorganized antimonopoly game if its not constantly debate such possibility as workable regulations, the question would "they" seat with crossed hands if such vibe pops up, think not!, but thats why we need as wide as possible eTOS vibe so "they" would have issue with controlling of "their" narratives and skims i.e. every state should have various political ngo eforums and hopefully public open party eforums where members by the level of their expertise would polish effective solutions on every level for every issue ...

Yet without regular mandatory e-referendums citizens again will be peddled and driven, so ideally some centrist party should take the chance and by open public party eforum to invite all available experts to polish its party platform potentially like that forcing the rest of parties to get onboard to the eTOS vibe after what I am certain that Direct Participatory Democracy will get inertia, would it happens, hm, controlled chaos can surely postpone if not stop such momentum so ea-elites would reorganize and start thinking how to thrive mids such vibe or how to hijack it most easily!, eventually could release ordo'ab'chao scenario so would try to impose marshal law and instant technocracy how would stay in power as shadow elites, thats why Mankind should not waste time and where is possible to push for True Open Society what by all means should be case in the "western" realm yet every state could introduce such creative intellectual mobilization directed towards survival and prosperity of its system while in same time securing as much as possible equality and as less as possible elitism!

I just don't think transparency will stop these companies from spreading their tentacles everywhere. I mean, the playbooks are readily published and available everywhere, as you pointed out with those videos you shared. If you shed light on it, they'll just end up finding loop holes to continue their spread of power.