Biology Forums - Study Force

Discussion News Articles and Discussion Topic started by: oemBiology on Jun 14, 2018



Title: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: oemBiology on Jun 14, 2018
I would like to know on what difference is between pulse current and AC current

Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance for any suggestions


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: bio_man on Jun 14, 2018
In AC current, the electrons move back and forth along the conductor. Pulse current relates to DC current.


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: oemBiology on Jun 14, 2018
I would like to know on what difference is between Pulse current and + battery -, both are DC.

Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you very much for any suggestions (^v^)



Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: bio_man on Jun 15, 2018
Do you have an article on pulse current? We may have a different understanding about what it is. I want to make sure we're discussing the same thing

Thanks


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: oemBiology on Jun 15, 2018
Pulse current is being used on following device
Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you very much for any suggestions (^v^)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wZUcNMGA3U


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: bio_man on Jun 15, 2018
I see now what you mean. This technology is called electromuscle stimulation (EMS). It works by sending an electrical impulse into a muscle group, eliciting a contraction. For a muscle to contract, the central nervous system will send an electrical signal through the body via neurons. Once this signal reaches its destination, the result is called an action potential. Once these action potentials build within the cells of muscles, the physiological effects result in a muscle contraction. EMS works by mimicking the action potential at a specific muscle group.

EMS uses the tradition DC current, where electrons follow the path of the conductor which leads back to the battery source.


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: oemBiology on Jun 15, 2018
When a neuron is stimulated enough, it fires an electrical impulse that zips down its axon to its neightboring neurons. This nerve impulse is called the action potential.

If EMS sends an electrical impulse to trigger nerve impulse, it requires to perform following tasks:

For Sodium-potassium pump, when every 2 potassium ions it pumps into the cell, it pumps out 3 sodium ions, it requires ATP energy for this process.

1) ATP attaches to protein with bound sodium ions and change to ADP
2) Extracellular potassium ions bind to exposed sites. Binding of potassium causes release of phosphate from protein and ADP transform back to ATP.
3) Phosphate release changes protein back to its original shape. Potassium ions move into the cell.

Since ATP > ADP > ATP, I would like to know on whether this process requires extra energy or not? what is the cost in term of energy during EMS exercise?

Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you very much for any suggestions (^v^)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcqbY6GZ1rk


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: bio_man on Jun 15, 2018
None of that stuff happens with ATP, etc. The neutrons just act as conductors, overriding what normally happens when neurotransmitters activate neurons within the body


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: oemBiology on Jun 15, 2018
None of that stuff happens with ATP, etc. The neutrons just act as conductors, overriding what normally happens when neurotransmitters activate neurons within the body

When EMS send an electrical impulse to trigger nerve impulse, I would like to know on how systolic and diastolic pressure are affected by EMS, for example, Pulse wave through the arteries caused by the stretch and recoil of the aorta, do EMS effect the pulse wave as well? If that is the case, would increasing pulse wave also increase systolic and diastolic pressure?

Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you very much for any suggestions (^v^)


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: bio_man on Jun 15, 2018
Think about what happens during electrocution because that's essentially what's happening here. All muscle fibers are tense and contracted during electrocution. That causes surrounding blood vessels to constrict, increasing blood pressure momentarily.


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: oemBiology on Jun 16, 2018
Think about what happens during electrocution because that's essentially what's happening here. All muscle fibers are tense and contracted during electrocution. That causes surrounding blood vessels to constrict, increasing blood pressure momentarily.

Let assume heart rate is 80 per minutes, if EMS at 70 pulse per minutes, would EMS's 70 frequency interrupt the heart's 80 frequency? since the heart muscle's tense and contract are also controlled by nerve impulse as well.

Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you very much for any suggestions (^v^)


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: bio_man on Jun 16, 2018
The pulse frequency isn't important.

Regardless of its frequency, the affect on the body is the same. They increase pulse frequency to prevent the nerves from overheating, causing permanent damage.


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: oemBiology on Jun 16, 2018
The pulse frequency isn't important.

Regardless of its frequency, the affect on the body is the same. They increase pulse frequency to prevent the nerves from overheating, causing permanent damage.

Could you please describe more on why and what frequency affecting on the body is the same?

Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you very much for any suggestions (^v^)


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: bio_man on Jun 16, 2018
The frequency at which the pulse is transmitted to the body is programmed to prevent your nerves from overheating.

Here's what happens to someone struck by lightening.

(https://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/streams/2012/march/120305/145459-melissa-dahl59c02959-a263-2f75-9674-bbdcfe32743f.nbcnews-ux-1024-900.jpg)

Notice the damage


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: oemBiology on Jun 16, 2018
It looks like a tattoo, if the nerve is damaged by overheat through lighting, does he still feel anything in his arm?

Furthermore, back to the following issue:

Let assume heart rate is 80 per minutes, if EMS at 70 pulse per minutes, would EMS's 70 frequency interrupt the heart's 80 frequency? since the heart muscle's tense and contract are also controlled by nerve impulse as well.

Since heart and EMS are on different frequency, so from heart's viewpoint, if it is time for muscle to release, but the EMS make muscle to contract, so it may be not enough time for muscle to release before next contract, do it interrupt heart's performance?

Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you very much for any suggestions (^v^)


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: bio_man on Jun 16, 2018
Surely there's nerve damage, but the "tattoo" you see isn't permanent. It's called the Lichtenberg figure, and it's caused by the rupture of capillaries (tiniest blood vessels) under the skin when the lightning current passes through it.

Now in terms of your other question about the heart, I think a pacemaker works like an EMS by resetting the heart's rhythm. Except the video shows localized stimulation of the abdominal muscles, that won't affect the heart because it's not strong enough or close enough -- tissue acts as an insulator. If you places it on the heart, I'd assume like a pacemaker would stop the heart from beating. It's a very technical question because from my view, if the frequencies are in sync or not, the EMS would alter the heartbeat no matter what.


Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: oemBiology on Jun 16, 2018
Do you find any stimulation experiments at the back of the spine instead of abdominal muscles?
Is there any potential harm for this stimulation treatment? Any idea?
Do you have any suggestions?
Thank you very much for any suggestions (^v^)




Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: bio_man on Jun 16, 2018
Yes, there are plenty of studies evaluating the benefits and risk. Let me know if this links helps

https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=electro+muscle+stimulation+risk+spine&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&p=&u=%23p%3DPV9wiyYklbQJ




Title: Re: What difference is between pulse current and AC current?
Post by: oemBiology on Jun 16, 2018
Thank you very much for suggestions (^v^)