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Title: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 15, 2022 Tessa Hansen Smith (LivingWaterLess on Instagram) claims she's internally allergic to water when it touches her throat, her internal organs, and her bloodstream. She has an internal allergic reaction to intravenous saline, she explained it's because her bloodstream immune cells are reacting to the presence of water molecules. She says nurses have accused her of making it up. She says the only reason she can drink milk is because the fats in the milk surround the water molecules so they cannot be detected by her immune system. Is there any way for the immune system to detect or recognize water molecules?
Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Sep 15, 2022 Yeah, that's nonsense. No one is allergic to water, as it encompasses 60% of an adult's total weight.
Quote She says the only reason she can drink milk is because the fats in the milk surround the water molecules so they cannot be detected by her immune system. Is there any way for the immune system to detect or recognize water molecules? Milk is a homogenous solution. It consists of 87% water. Milk comes in different percentages of cream, with skim milk being less than 1%. The fact she can drink milk and survive suggests she's not allergic to water. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: Maserati on Sep 15, 2022 I agree with the post above. The immune system can't detect water molecules because if it did, then the person immune system would eat itself alive.
Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 15, 2022 Yeah, that's nonsense. No one is allergic to water, as it encompasses 60% of an adult's total weight. Quote She says the only reason she can drink milk is because the fats in the milk surround the water molecules so they cannot be detected by her immune system. Is there any way for the immune system to detect or recognize water molecules? Milk is a homogenous solution. It consists of 87% water. Milk comes in different percentages of cream, with skim milk being less than 1%. The fact she can drink milk and survive suggests she's not allergic to water. Quoting Tessa, ''the fats, proteins, and sugars in milk surround the water molecules and allow the water molecules to sort of sneak past my immune system'' Not sure how plausible her explanation is, though. Hence why I'm asking here. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Sep 15, 2022 Say you have 100 mL of milk.
87% water means that 87 mL of the 100 mL is water. The remaining 13% is cream, proteins, sugar, etc. Or in other words, 13 mL consists of everything that's not water. There's not enough cream, proteins, sugar to coat remaining 87%. So this explanation isn't logical to me. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 15, 2022 Say you have 100 mL of milk. 87% water means that 87 mL of the 100 mL is water. The remaining 13% is cream, proteins, sugar, etc. Or in other words, 13 mL consists of everything that's not water. There's not enough cream, proteins, sugar to coat remaining 87%. So this explanation isn't logical to me. She says she drinks about 800 ml of milk a day, and she's constantly dehydrated (hence the attempt to hydrate her using intravenous saline - which she cannot tolerate due to her allergy). It's implied she still reacts to milk but not as badly as pure water. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Sep 15, 2022 Unless you live with the person, there's really no way to verify what they're saying is true. Anyone can claim anything
Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 15, 2022 Unless you live with the person, there's really no way to verify what they're saying is true. Anyone can claim anything Her instagram and the news articles about her show photos of her in the hospital being treated for her internal allergy to water molecules. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Sep 15, 2022 Just to entertain the idea, can you forward a news article written about this person?
Mind you, believing in this is no different then believing in the tooth fairy 😆 Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 15, 2022 Just to entertain the idea, can you forward a news article written about this person? Mind you, believing in this is no different then believing in the tooth fairy 😆 https://allindiaroundup.com/news/student-who-is-allergic-to-water-breaks-out-in-rashes-when-she-sweats-or-cries/ Quoting the article: ''I get rashes on my body quite often, but especially where clothes rubs/rests on my skin. Even during a slow walk, the body will produce some amount of sweat. Most of the time it’s so minuscule people will never even notice it—but we have to wash our clothes because they’re getting dirty somehow! Even though when I walk slowly (the only form of exercise I can really handle) sweat is produced, but while it starts out as a very small amount like everyone else, my body quickly reacts to this and makes my temperature increase, which in turn makes me sweat more. It’s not a great cycle for this allergy. This is just one example of what my skin looks like, the waistband of my leggings I was wearing today rests on my stomach. There are no bumps because the medication I take helps reduce the allergic reaction, but the skin will still flare up and be extra sensitive. If I started to itch these spots (which I try really really hard not to) then rashes and hives can quickly pop up and persist for a lot longer than this sensitivity. I try to post pictures and videos that show physical, observable reactions, because since half of this allergy is all internal the worst parts of my allergy are invisible. People with invisible disabilities and conditions face a lot of discrimination and hate. I’ve had people, even people in the medical field, accuse me of lying about my condition if I can’t produce reactions visible to the naked eye. When I was in the ER a few weeks ago receiving IV infusions, the nurse didn’t believe me at first that I had to have steroid anti-histamines injected first or the saline would hurt me. But in between injections of medicine saline needs to be injected to flush the IV tube, and during this time she saw me grimace in pain and asked me to show her where the pain was. I pointed to part of my arm, starting in my wrist where the injection site was, and following an odd path up my arm. She looked shocked when I perfectly pointed out the route of a deep vein, and only then did she believe I was in actual pain. This condition is hard enough to deal with, but the accusatory attitudes that come from others makes it hard mentally. So be kind to everyone! 💕'' Another article refers to Tessa - https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a30647028/can-you-be-allergic-to-water/ ''Hansen-Smith can’t drink more than a few ounces of water without getting severe stomach cramps, so she drinks whole milk instead. “The sugars, fats and proteins help the water molecules sort of ‘sneak’ past my immune system so I can get some hydration,” she says.'' Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Sep 15, 2022 Quote “The sugars, fats and proteins help the water molecules sort of ‘sneak’ past my immune system so I can get some hydration,” she says.' They're just quoting her. All these articles are referencing her Instagram page, as did you, so I don't know what's real or not. Assuming those reactions are real, I don't think it's caused by water, but instead due to some phobia she's experiencing. Sufferers of "aquagenic urticaria" articulate the phobic object with their flesh. She has developed some anxiety being in contact with water and bodily fluids, that her body is stimulated to react to it; this is why milk works for her because she believe this nonsensical fact that it is surrounded by equal parts cream, which is illogical, but to her, a sense of subconscious comfort. Hence, the phobia of being in contact with water and bodily fluids is translated into the above physical manifestations through which the body speaks and attempts to symbolize through bruising. Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270133139_Aquagenic_Urticaria_and_Aquagenic_Pruritus_-_a_psychoanalytic_study_by_Ayelet_Hirshfeld_PhD Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 15, 2022 Quote “The sugars, fats and proteins help the water molecules sort of ‘sneak’ past my immune system so I can get some hydration,” she says.' They're just quoting her. All these articles are referencing her Instagram page, as did you, so I don't know what's real or not. Assuming those reactions are real, I don't think it's caused by water, but instead due to some phobia she's experiencing. Sufferers of "aquagenic urticaria" articulate the phobic object with their flesh. She has developed some anxiety being in contact with water and bodily fluids, that her body is stimulated to react to it; this is why milk works for her because she believe this nonsensical fact that it is surrounded by equal parts cream, which is illogical, but to her, a sense of subconscious comfort. Hence, the phobia of being in contact with water and bodily fluids is translated into the above physical manifestations through which the body speaks and attempts to symbolize through bruising. Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270133139_Aquagenic_Urticaria_and_Aquagenic_Pruritus_-_a_psychoanalytic_study_by_Ayelet_Hirshfeld_PhD Thanks for that! If it is psychological, I wonder why aquagenic urticaria is still considered a mystery by most scientists. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Sep 15, 2022 I think it's because biologists like finding definitive proof to things. For example, if substance a and substance b react, then it's definitive proof that a and b form a reaction. Here we see that on >>99.9% of the population, nothing happens when someone's skin comes in contact with water, hence situations like these stump scientists because it goes against what's expected in nature. When we can't find definitive proof to something, we turn to the brain. The brain is very powerful, but it is also difficult to study since variables are hard to control especially when experimenting with one's mental state. This is where psychology comes in, it fills the gap between the scientific world with our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. Scientists, however don't like using psychology to explain certain phenomena, as it doesn't provide the definitive proof they're looking for, even when it's sufficient.
Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 15, 2022 I think it's because biologists like finding definitive proof to things. For example, if substance a and substance b react, then it's definitive proof that a and b form a reaction. Here we see that on >>99.9% of the population, nothing happens when someone's skin comes in contact with water, hence situations like these stump scientists because it goes against what's expected in nature. When we can't find definitive proof to something, we turn to the brain. The brain is very powerful, but it is also difficult to study since variables are hard to control especially when experimenting with one's mental state. This is where psychology comes in, it fills the gap between the scientific world with our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. Scientists, however don't like using psychology to explain certain phenomena, as it doesn't provide the definitive proof they're looking for, even when it's sufficient. Could the psychological explanation explain Heidi Falconer's case? She too was diagnosed with aquagenic urticaria and suffers internal reactions to water severe enough it results in her going into shock (she has Epi Pens just in case). Her mother claims that when Heidi was born, she was covered in welts. Like Tessa, Heidi also had internal reactions to intravenous saline. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Sep 15, 2022 Probably, but I can't say for certain as the whole idea seems so bizarre to me.
Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 15, 2022 Probably, but I can't say for certain as the whole idea seems so bizarre to me. Agree. I can't rule out a hoax, there was one time the parents went to the news claiming that a special 'suit' to protect Heidi from the rain/moisture in the air was ripped up by a robber (who did not steal anything else) and later left on their front porch (the family claimed Heidi's suit was ripped to pieces, and the pieces were intentionally scattered on the porch). The family said that people donated £2000 worth of funds to them, enabling them to get a new 'suit' for Heidi. That article always struck me as a bit odd. Heidi herself gets into the news every couple of years. https://socialnewsdaily.com/75296/woman-possesses-fatal-water-allergy/ Tessa's Instagram is here https://www.instagram.com/livingwaterless/?hl=en Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: Blakeflanigan19 on Sep 16, 2022 Tessa's Instagram is here https://www.instagram.com/livingwaterless/?hl=en Not to judge, but she looks like something with psychological issues who needs validation from complete strangers to feel whole Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 19, 2022 HealthLine has an article on Aquagenic Urticaria. https://www.healthline.com/health/aquagenic-urticaria
It says in severe cases, drinking water causes shortness of breath and swelling of the throat. It mentions drinking water causes symptoms in severe cases: https://www.allergycliniclondon.co.uk/a ... -to-water/ ''WHAT ARE THE SYMPTOMS? People with aquagenic urticaria can experience a range of symptoms. These include rashes, itching, red skin, burning sensations, lesions, welts, and inflammation. In more severe cases, drinking water can cause issues. With this, someone might experience difficulty breathing, swallowing, wheezing, or a rash around the mouth. Symptoms will kick in shortly after exposure, usually around 15 minutes. And luckily, mild symptoms don’t tend to stick around for long either. After drying yourself off, symptoms can fade within the hour. '' Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Sep 19, 2022 I wonder if symptoms occurs with distilled water too?
Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 19, 2022 I wonder if symptoms occurs with distilled water too? Aquagenic Urticaria is diagnosed when patients still react to distilled water. There are less than 50 cases ever described worldwide. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Sep 19, 2022 Something smells fishy to me. Again, I go back to my initial argument presented earlier
Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 20, 2022 Here are the articles I could find
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JUST+ONE+CUP+OF+WATER+COULD+KILL+LITTLE+HEIDI%3B+Girl%27s+deadly+allergy...-a061152595 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/girl-allergic-to-water-could-die-760056 https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/486239/Allergic-to-water https://www.hertsad.co.uk/news/wheathampstead-woman-suffering-with-water-allergy-5144242 https://socialnewsdaily.com/75296/woman-possesses-fatal-water-allergy/ https://allindiaroundup.com/news/student-who-is-allergic-to-water-breaks-out-in-rashes-when-she-sweats-or-cries/ https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160915-the-woman-who-is-allergic-to-water https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emVez_hsqkM This is a non-exhaustive list. These are all different people diagnosed with Aquagenic Urticaria. Some of them only react to water on their skin but others also react internally to water (ie, IV saline, drinking) The diagnostic procedure rules out chemicals in the water being the culprit, since after the patient still reacts to distilled/sterile water, that is when a diagnosis of Aquagenic Urticaria is confirmed. There are less than 50 cases ever documented worldwide. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Sep 22, 2022 Thanks for sharing that for reference sake!
Still, I find this all hard to believe. Clearly something is happening to these people, but it's likely caused my their mental state more so than water. In fact, even the air we breath is composed of water vapor, so technically they should be reacting to air as well. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Sep 30, 2022 Found a Wikipedia page on it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquagenic_urticaria
Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Sep 30, 2022 Found a Wikipedia page on it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquagenic_urticaria Thanks. Still, this should be filed under "made-up disorders" for hypochondriacs :lol: Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Oct 7, 2022 More sources about 'Aquagenic Urticaria'
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20160915-the-woman-who-is-allergic-to-water https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JUST+ONE+CUP+OF+WATER+COULD+KILL+LITTLE+HEIDI%3B+Girl%27s+deadly+allergy...-a061152595 https://scienceinfo.net/girl-allergic-to-water.html https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-what-happens-if-you-develop-an-allergy-to-water Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Oct 9, 2022 I just read her q&a which is pinned on her Instagram profile.
She claims her immune system only detects (quote) ''foreign'' water molecules, so the water molecules already inside her body are okay. Is Aquagenic Urticaria a legitimate medical condition? Is there any difference between a water molecule that came from outside the body, versus a water molecule which comes from inside of the body? Here's Tessa's instagram profile https://www.instagram.com/livingwaterless/?hl=en Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Oct 9, 2022 I just read her q&a which is pinned on her Instagram profile. She claims her immune system only detects (quote) ''foreign'' water molecules, so the water molecules already inside her body are okay. Is Aquagenic Urticaria a legitimate medical condition? Is there any difference between a water molecule that came from outside the body, versus a water molecule which comes from inside of the body? Here's Tessa's instagram profile https://www.instagram.com/livingwaterless/?hl=en No, there isn't a difference between bodily H2O and water drank from a fountain, for example. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Oct 9, 2022 I just read her q&a which is pinned on her Instagram profile. She claims her immune system only detects (quote) ''foreign'' water molecules, so the water molecules already inside her body are okay. Is Aquagenic Urticaria a legitimate medical condition? Is there any difference between a water molecule that came from outside the body, versus a water molecule which comes from inside of the body? Here's Tessa's instagram profile https://www.instagram.com/livingwaterless/?hl=en No, there isn't a difference between bodily H2O and water drank from a fountain, for example. So how does her immune system tell the difference between H2O molecules which are foreign, and which ones are already inside her body? There appears to be quite a few case reports of aquagenic urticaria on NIH. It's generally accepted that this is a legitimate condition. After water exposure, raised histamine levels have been observed in patients, along with hives and swelling of the oral cavity. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5438944/ There are photos of the hives in the link provided. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Oct 9, 2022 Quote So how does her immune system tell the difference between H2O molecules which are foreign, and which ones are already inside her body? The immune can't. H2O doesn't have different markers that differentiate one molecule from another. It's simply two hydrogens and one oxygen atom. Quote To the best of our knowledge, there have been only four cases9,16,17 of aquagenic urticaria in Korea, but our case report is the first in the English and Korean literatures to include the results of the histopathologic examination. The sample size in this study, and many others, is simply too small to make any significant claims. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Oct 9, 2022 Quote So how does her immune system tell the difference between H2O molecules which are foreign, and which ones are already inside her body? The immune can't. H2O doesn't have different markers that differentiate one molecule from another. It's simply two hydrogens and one oxygen atom. Quote To the best of our knowledge, there have been only four cases9,16,17 of aquagenic urticaria in Korea, but our case report is the first in the English and Korean literatures to include the results of the histopathologic examination. The sample size in this study, and many others, is simply too small to make any significant claims. There are a lot more write-ups on NIH about aquagenic urticaria: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7669369/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16119038/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7272209/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15317326/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3646536/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9647271/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12271310/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9390343/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21314009/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8170845/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29252177/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3588355/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24141429/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29329725/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8996279/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35850790/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11205388/ Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Oct 9, 2022 Most of those links are only reviews the condition, and those that analyze patients always focus on no more than four people in the study (that small of a sample size doesn't warrant validity in my opinion).
Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Oct 9, 2022 Most of those links are only reviews the condition, and those that analyze patients always focus on no more than four people in the study (that small of a sample size doesn't warrant validity in my opinion). There are multiple news articles on different people who were diagnosed with aquagenic urticaria. Some have even been prescribed Epi Pens. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Oct 9, 2022 News articles don't make things valid; ever heard of the phrase "fake news"?
You can get a doctor to prescribe anything though. I don't get your point... Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Oct 9, 2022 News articles don't make things valid; ever heard of the phrase "fake news"? You can get a doctor to prescribe anything though. I don't get your point... Tessa Smith has posted photos of her hives/rashes from water on her Instagram https://www.instagram.com/p/CT2ZzqovVxk/?hl=en https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ9K1XSD1CZ/?hl=en She's also posted videos https://www.instagram.com/p/CNLappBD_gY/?hl=en Photo of her with her chest in hives, from sweating https://www.instagram.com/p/CI84hPYDG0I/?hl=en Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Oct 9, 2022 I'm not going to click those links. It will only legitimize her pseudo-condition and feed her madness. What she really needs is a psychiatrist.
Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Oct 9, 2022 I'm not going to click those links. It will only legitimize her pseudo-condition and feed her madness. What she really needs is a psychiatrist. The photos were of hives/rashes on her skin after water exposure. Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Oct 9, 2022 By clicking the link, Instagram registers that as an impression. The greater the impressions, the more likely her "work" will be shown to the public. The less people reach her profile, the more likely she'll snap out of it. Therefore, I am only helping her by not feeding the beast (that is, Instagram's algorithms). Do you agree that she should be seeking mental help?
Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: ClaraY on Oct 9, 2022 By clicking the link, Instagram registers that as an impression. The greater the impressions, the more likely her "work" will be shown to the public. The less people reach her profile, the more likely she'll snap out of it. Therefore, I am only helping her by not feeding the beast (that is, Instagram's algorithms). Do you agree that she should be seeking mental help? I don't know, I'm still trying to figure out of aquagenic urticaria really exists. Multiple medical sites are saying it's real. There seems to be multiple people saying they were diagnosed with it, and often times the newspapers interview the doctors that diagnosed them. What do they gain from lying about water allergy being real? Title: Re: Is there any way for the immune system to detect and react to water molecules? Post by: bio_man on Oct 9, 2022 Quote What do they gain from lying about water allergy being real? Fame is a major factor. Some people have nothing going for them, so they make up stories online to feel special. Now, perhaps this person really is reacting to the water. My hypothesis is that he/she has conditioned themselves to stimulate an immune response out of fear or anxiety. The mind is powerful enough to be capable of doing such a thing. |