Biology Forums - Study Force

I hope I'm not abusing this site but I have a question.  This is independent homework / study, not textbook.

I'm trying to understand what glycerol (vegetable glycerine) can do in the lungs when inhaled.  Glycerol is an alcohol, not a lipid.  But it's also hygroscopic.  I think that inhaled glycerol can either draw the body's fat into the lungs or it irritates the lungs to the point that the body responds by depositing fat in the lungs.

Does that make sense?  Can glycerol do that?

Is this what you mean by hygroscopic:

The property of absorbing moisture from the air

?

It absorbs moisture in its environment which, in this case, would be the lungs and body.  People who inhale glycerol report heavy lungs, which seems like the lungs are becoming saturated and weighted with moisture.  They also report dryness (lips, throat, skin).

 

I never knew glyercine had these properties. For the most part, it is a harmless compound that is ubiquitously found in various meals.

Where are you getting this information from?

Vegetable glycerine is the base liquid used for vaping nicotine with electronic cigarettes.

Post Merge: 8 years ago

I'll explain more.

There have been reports of people who use electronic cigarettes developing lipid pneumonia.  That claim is denied by reason that glycerol is an alcohol, not a lipid.  However, the cause for concern is valid and I think people should be taking a closer look at what heated and inhaled glycerol can do to the lungs.

Glycerol is the backbone of triglycerides. Triglycerides are the main ingredient in vegetable oils. Vegetable glycerin is a carbohydrate derived from plant oils. Vegetable glycerin, or glycerol, is a clear, odorless liquid produced from plant oils, typically palm oil, soy, or coconut oil.

It seems clear to me that yes, inhaled glycerol can cause lipid pneumonia.  But I'm not a scientist so I can't say.

Post Merge: 8 years ago

I think the hygroscopic nature of glycerol is drawing moisture into the lungs, causing a condition known to e-cigarette users as "heavy lung".

I think the lungs become the target to absorb moisture, saturating the lungs while dehydrating the rest of the body.

I'm also curious if glycerol can absorb fat into the lungs. 

Very interesting correlation!

Yes it is an interesting correlation, indeed.

How sure are we that this symptom is caused by this reaction. Are there any studies that demonstrate this to be true? E-cigarettes have been shown to cause oxidative cell stress and increase reactive oxygen species, but how do we know it's caused by the glycerine?

I should have said,

I'm also curious if glycerol, by its hygroscopic nature, can absorb fat into the lungs.

Post Merge: 8 years ago

When you say this symptom, do you mean heavy lung or lipid pneumonia?

As of right now there are studies on the liquids and devices but no studies, that I'm aware of, of health impact.  I'm not familiar with oxidative cell stress, you've just introduced it to me.

Post Merge: 8 years ago

Thank you.  I found this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25658421

Yes, I meant the feeling of heavy lungs.

Why are researching this? Are you a smoker?

I'm researching it because I think people are mistaken that vaping can't cause lipid pneumonia.  I think it can.

In reading about vape related lipid pneumonia I find only denials on the basis that glycerol is an alcohol and not a lipid.  I don't think the matter should be dismissed as settled.

Some people associate the condition known to vapers as heavy lung with coming off of cigarettes.  Others realize that heavy lung is caused by vaping (specifically, the vegetable glycerine).  In the case of lipid pneumonia, the patient’s symptoms improved after she stopped using e-cigarettes.  People with heavy lung adjust their formulas by decreasing vegetable glycerol.

While I do smoke and vape, it's just an intellectual interest (I don't experience heavy lung and I'm not pneumatic).  I'm totally convinced that vaping can cause lipid pneumonia and I want to understand it.  It seems straightaway obvious to me that it can and it does.  I'm no chemist or biologist or scientist.  I just have a very strong feeling about it.

By definition glycerin is an alcohol with three hydroxyl groups.


Without the science to back it up, your claim holds no truth, unfortunately. What's the biochemical pathway you're hypothesizing?

There is a claim but it isn't mine.  The claim is that vaping caused lipid pneumonia. 

1 McCauley, L., Markin, C., & Hosmer, D. (2012). An Unexpected Consequence of Electronic Cigarette Use. Chest, 141(4): 1110–1113.

2 Vardavas, C.I., Anagnostopoulos, N., Kougias, M., Evangelopoulou, V., Connolly, G.N., & Behrakis, P.K. (2011). Acute pulmonary effects of using an e-cigarette: Impact on respiratory flow resistance, impedance and exhaled nitric oxide. Chest: prepublished online.

http://ucanquit2.org/Vapor


That claim is denied by vapers, by reason that vegetable glycerine (glycol) is an alcohol and not a lipid.

I think the vapers are mistaken.  I think the person who was diagnosed with lipid pneumonia was diagnosed correctly.  I think vaping can cause lipid pneumonia, but, figuring out how is tricky. 

In addition to vegetable glycerine, propylene glycol is another main ingredient in electronic cigarette liquids.  It seems likely that propylene glycol is the culprit in developing lipid pneumonia and vegetable glycerine is the culprit in developing heavy lung.  I'm not making claims, I'm just thinking out loud while trying to understand the information I'm reviewing.

Where I'm at right now is that if propylene glycol is a lipid solvent (in addition to ethanol), I'm wondering if vaping provokes a catabolic response resulting in endogenous lipid pneumonia. Because the inhalants are alcohols and not lipids it can't be considered exogenous lipid pneumonia (such as, inhaling kerosene).

Ethanol is used as a sweetener in the liquids.  It's a lipid solvent. 

I'm probably way off the mark but, that's precisely why I'm posting in a forum and asking around.  We'll find out!

Post Merge: 8 years ago

Correction:  That claim is denied by vapers, by reason that vegetable glycerine (glycerol) is an alcohol and not a lipid.

Neither of these sources provide any proof.

The conclusion in the second link states: e-Cigarettes assessed in the context of this study were found to have immediate adverse physiologic effects after short-term use that are similar to some of the effects seen with tobacco smoking; however, the long-term health effects of e-cigarette use are unknown but potentially adverse and worthy of further investigation.

I do appreciate the correlation you provided between glycerine and lipid pneumonia. Not sure how vapes work exactly, but does the glycerine leak into the smoke?

Good excerpt below :down:

Right, the long-term effects are not known because e-cigarettes are too new.  However, the diagnosis was still made and e-cigarettes were deemed to be the cause.

Ha!  I thought it was cholesterol.  Very interesting.  I don't know what the lipid in lipid pneumonia was but at least I know it wasn't kerosene or ghee. 

There are a few ways the liquids are prepared.  In disposable cartridges, the chamber is wound with cotton and the cotton is soaked with the liquid solution.  In refillable cartridges, the chamber is filled with the liquid and instead of a blanket of cotton there are two cotton wicks.  In a method called dripping, drops of liquid are applied to the atomizer (heating element).  In any case, to puff on the e-cigarette heats up the coils and a vapor (not smoke) is produced of the liquid.  I don't know if method of use is a factor but the heated and vaporized liquid is directly inhaled.

Post Merge: 8 years ago

I've recently been in email contact with one of the industry's lead researchers, Dr. Farsalino.  His website can be viewed here: http://www.ecigarette-research.org/research/index.php/about

Dr. F. wrote that he has to "repeat that VG cannot cause lipoid pneumonia" (his spelling).  He also wrote that he has "never heard of the term heavy lung before".

I think that's significant.

I emailed him a list of 8 forum threads discussing heavy lung.  I'm sure there are many, many more.  Here is one of them: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/seems-like-vaping-is-hurting-my-lungs-messing-w-my-sinuses.623049/

It seems to me that people are seeking advice on internet forums instead of their doctors.  Because of that, adverse response to vaping is going under-reported. 

I appreciate having this space to work out, for my own interest and understanding, if there is a link between heavy lung and lipid pneumonia.  I realize that most people insist that vaping can't cause lipid pneumonia.  I don't feel confident about that.

TBC.   :nerd:

Bingo!  I suspected she had high cholesterol.  

The woman who was diagnosed with lipid pneumonia had been taking Lovastatin to lower her cholesterol.  I suspected early on that the fat / lipid was coming from the body (not because of the liquid itself but somehow could be a reaction to the liquid).  In fact, that's exactly what my OP in this thread is about.  I don't know if the hygroscopic nature of the liquids can "draw fat" into the lungs.  That might be total nonsense.  

It does seem as if "heavy lung" itself is some form of pneumonia.  

This was a great find (thanks to Guillermo González for his comment).  http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/06/german-cancer-research-center-corrects.html (http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/06/german-cancer-research-center-corrects.html)