Hi Sarah.

I want to point out that the video you told us to watch is cruel and disgusting and - what they do to themselves. However, those people are not the followers of Prophet Muhammad. They are a minority group of Islam. Islam consists of different groups. Some include Sunni (majority of Muslims), Shiites and Sufis. There are others like Ahmadis.
The video doesn't represent Muslims. It represents the Shiites. They are a whole different religion. They have different beliefs, rituals, rules, customs, everything. I have met people who call themselves Shiites. They have a unique life and religion but it is nothing close to the religion of Prophet Muhammad. Go talk to a Sunni and you'll see differences.

Also, i don't know which interpretation of the Koran you are reading. Probably the Shiite version. I suggest you get a copy of the original.

Furthermore, the meaning of the word Jihad, (which is an Arabic word), does not mean to fight in the way of Allah ( God ).

It means to struggle in the way of Allah.
A Muslim struggles everyday in his/her life. For example, struggling to find a halal restaurant to eat at. Or wearing the hijab to cover herself in public. Praying five times a day. That's Jihad.

Jihad, literally does not mean to kill people. Actually, the Koran and the Prophet clearly says to avoid war, instead peacefully solve issues.

The word Jihad stems from the Arabic root word J-H-D, which means "strive." Other words derived from this root include "effort," "labor," and "fatigue." Essentially Jihad is an effort to practice religion in the face of oppression and persecution. The effort may come in fighting the evil in your own heart, or in standing up to a dictator. Military effort is included as an option, but as a last resort and not "to spread Islam by the sword" as the stereotype would have one believe.

Please don't give me your washed down version of that word. I am a native Arabic speaker (from Lebanon) and an ex-Muslim. I converted years ago after reading the Koran and joining countless Koranic study groups because I was convinced by my friends I was demonized. There is nothing peaceful about that religion and what you refer to as struggle, for example finding halal food at the supermarket being a struggle is a pathetic example of what it is and what it means.

Wait, you mean these didn't happen? You mean the The Crusades didn't happen?  You deny that Fanatic Christians have used force to convert non-Christians to Christians?
Apart from that, Fanatic (as a word) has a Negative Use. I don't know St. Francis of Assisi, but if he followed the bible sayings then he definitely was not Fanatic. Or, if you insist that he is, then apparently you have a different meaning for this word.


If we suppose that these events are true: You definitely can't blame the religion for these. As I have already said, some people use fanatic people for these purposes. Is it a coincidence that none of these events (or at least, only extremely few of them) occurs in developed countries? In addition, I don't think that the Koran encourages this behavior, and if you think the opposite you could prove it. Posting isolated phrases doesn't help, because I easily counter your points by presenting you the true meaning of them.

I guess you didn't do a good job then. You were most likely prejudiced, just like you are now and that's why you can't change your mind.

That would make sense to me. As I said earlier, the only religious Muslims I know are from Turkey. Their religion is based to the Koran. I have no clue about other people who calls themselves "Muslims". So, if you are referred to people that their religion isn't based to the original Koran, then I can't judge because I do not know them.

I'm not giving my 'washed down version of that word". I'm 100% that word means struggling in the way of Allah. Honestly, I was doubtful, at some point, that Islam is a true religion because of the word Jihad. I thought Jihad was fighting and hurting and throwing bombs and everything. Just like everyone else I was convinced it meant that. (thanks to media). However, I did my research and asked the right people. The word 'Jihad' is misinterpreted because of how it is displayed in media. If you genuinely wanted to know about Islam and Jihad, you would do your research from trusted and correct sources. Not from different versions of the Koran
You're lebanese? Lebanon has a great amount of people that are Shiite. You were probably a Shiite before converting. Have you considered what the Sunnis believe in?
Your friends thought you were demonized? For what? Praying five times a day? Fasting? Giving charity? Wearing the hijab? You probably didn't even do any of those, because that is what the Prophet did and taught us to do. What's demonizing about that?
Well, if you were an ex-Shiite Muslim, then i can understand how your friends thought your were demonized. Anyone who beats themselves the way the video presents, ya. That is not normal.

You know I didn't mean finding halal food at the supermarket. I'm sure any Muslim can relate to going to a restaurant and hesitating to choose something from the menu because they were afraid there is pork, or wine, or specific meats included that is haram to eat.
Jihad is any struggle (Big or small). Yes, like that 'pathetic example'. To many Muslims, that is a struggle. For  some it is a big struggle. For others it is a small struggle. And sometimes, depending on the Muslim, it isn't even a struggle.

see, the problem with people like you and alexx is that even with contextual proof from the quran as sarah pointed out in several other posts, people still don't get it. i think i speak for everyone when that religion is messed up in every way possible.

sarah, would love to read more satanic versus from that relgion if you don't mind sharing more

see, the problem with people like you and alexx is that even with contextual proof from the quran as sarah pointed out in several other posts, people still don't get it. i think i speak for everyone when that religion is messed up in every way possible.

sarah, would love to read more satanic versus from that relgion if you don't mind sharing more
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I honestly don't know what Koran you guys are reading. Whatever it is, its not the original. I've read the original and the verses you posted, Sarah, aren't from the original.
Your sources aren't right. Could you please tell me what interpretation you guys are getting the 'satanic verses' from. I'm really curious to know, so I can see what you are so mad about.

This person (biolove) thinks that he will make me lose my temper. Do not worry, that won't happen. If you want to take part to this discussion, please present your arguments and stop insulting people.

your lack of intelligence offends me (period).

@fosmanali01, i'm assuming you're arabic because apparently you need to know how to speak arabic to "comprehend" islam to it's fullest. in other words, any other translation is useless (or inaccurate) because it has been translated; i seriously and honestly hate that argument, budd. it's like putting the other party in a stalemate and makes arguing useless. be a man and take it for what it is, stop making stupid excuses.

by the way, these guys make an incredible argument about satanic versus (video below). if you know your quran, you'd know that muhammad was possessed by satan while he spent time in the mountains. argueably, he was also possessed by satan when he took aisha's hand in marriage at the age of 9. Folks attention! mohammed took a 6 year old as his wife and later married her at the age of 9. he was 54 lol this also concludes he was a pedophile.

here are some versus everyone, i can find more but i'm sure sarah could help us with the others

Muslim (8:3309) - Muhammad consummated his marriage to Aisha when she was only nine.  (See also Bukhari 58:234 and many other places).  No where in the reliable Hadith or Sira is there any other age given.

Bukhari (93:639) - The Prophet of Islam would recite the 'Holy Qur'an' with his head in Aisha's lap, when she was menstruating.

so, open up your quran and start reading

Muhammad had sex with just about anyone he pleased, thanks to Allah's extraordinary interest in his personal sex life, as immortalized in the Qur'an.



good job sarah! i offically have a crush on you for bring this up.

I think an accurate translation would be the one which was translated by religious Muslims. Because it doesn't matter how you or any other anti-islamists understand Koran. The fact that really matters is the way that Muslims understand Koran.

Doing a short search to the web, I concluded that Muslims do not believe that. However, even if it's Historically correct, it is definetly NOT part of the Islam religion. It does not matter who created a religion. The results are which matters. Remember that the Bible was also created by humans, and not all of them were faithful.
Muslims believe to the Quran. So, if you want to make arguments abut Islam, please refer to the Quran.

The main discussion was to prove that Quran encourages or not a bad way of life. But you still haven't presented any relevant argument.

I haven't heard of that, but I don't think that it's important. (You could state the exact verses if you think that you can prove something with that.)

As you see I do not offend you and I think you must do the same.

that would make it biased


then the elect are delusional


watch the video again.

Why would it matter how you understand the Koran? Please make your points there and don't just say it. However, I would like you to present verses even from the translation you know.

As you see, the results of my search were most likely correct.

I don't think the exact verses are stated. If they are, you would save me time by presenting them.