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Ethan G. Author
wrote...
4 years ago
Is the Solvent in this glue not the water, is that why it's called water based, instead of the acrylic based glues where I assume acrylic is the solvent?
If the solvent was water, it wouldn't a concern. Water-based means that the components dissolves in water; compare to lipid-soluble -- then it's get absorbed in fat tissue, which is dangerous. Alcohols are soluble in water, but are also considered solvents.
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Hopefully it will stop where it is now, I'll have to keep an eye on it over the next few months to see if it gets any worse.
But don't obsess over it. Remember that each hair follicle follows a cycle of growth and shedding, so collectively your follicles might be in their growth stage; therefore, you'll experience better hair days than say next season. Watching this progress is like watching plants grow; try your best not to worry - easier said than done - and don't stair at the mirror too much! You'll end up developing a case of body dysmorphic disorder...
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Also going back to the PPM and mg/kg thing, I didn't realise mg.kg was mg per kg of body weight. Is that the same with PPM I assume when they talk about it in studies (i.e. rats exposed to 400ppm, means they were exposed to 400mg per kg of their weight)?
It's a 1-to-1 ratio so 400 ppm = 400mg per kg of their weight. You can use either or to describe the concentration of one compound dispersed in another. Assuming that the parts per million value is a mass per mass value, then the conversion can be done.
Why is it dangerous when absorbed in fat tissue? Does that not happen to every chemical if mixed with a solvent?

Yeah I try not to obsess over it too much. I'm just gonna take a few pictures and then take some more in a few months and compare them. I've never been too fussed over my appearance, but I know I wouldn't look good bald, especially at my age.

So when this: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1080/10915810290169800
says "10-1000ppm", is that completely different to the studies saying "rats were exposed to 500ppm", as in the first case it's just the concentration in a solution, whereas in the second it is a dose per body weight?
wrote...
Educator
4 years ago
Why is it dangerous when absorbed in fat tissue? Does that not happen to every chemical if mixed with a solvent?

When something is fat soluble, it gets stored in adipose tissue (fat). The danger with that is fat tissue isn't metabolized readily; people who are obese, for instance, usually remain obese. As the accumulation of poison in adipose tissue increases, the more harmful/toxic it becomes.

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Yeah I try not to obsess over it too much. I'm just gonna take a few pictures and then take some more in a few months and compare them. I've never been too fussed over my appearance, but I know I wouldn't look good bald, especially at my age.

20s, I'm assuming? I think going bald at any age sucks, and takes time getting used to. For some people, they never get used to it, this is why the hair restoration industry is up in the billions.

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So when this: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1080/10915810290169800
says "10-1000ppm", is that completely different to the studies saying "rats were exposed to 500ppm", as in the first case it's just the concentration in a solution, whereas in the second it is a dose per body weight?

Reading the report further, it mentions:



This suggests it's 5-40 mg per kilogram of solution. So the concentration is 5 to 40 mg per 1 kilogram of say water.
Ethan G. Author
wrote...
4 years ago
Why is it dangerous when absorbed in fat tissue? Does that not happen to every chemical if mixed with a solvent?

When something is fat soluble, it gets stored in adipose tissue (fat). The danger with that is fat tissue isn't metabolized readily; people who are obese, for instance, usually remain obese. As the accumulation of poison in adipose tissue increases, the more harmful/toxic it becomes.

Quote
Yeah I try not to obsess over it too much. I'm just gonna take a few pictures and then take some more in a few months and compare them. I've never been too fussed over my appearance, but I know I wouldn't look good bald, especially at my age.

20s, I'm assuming? I think going bald at any age sucks, and takes time getting used to. For some people, they never get used to it, this is why the hair restoration industry is up in the billions.

Quote
So when this: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1080/10915810290169800
says "10-1000ppm", is that completely different to the studies saying "rats were exposed to 500ppm", as in the first case it's just the concentration in a solution, whereas in the second it is a dose per body weight?

Reading the report further, it mentions:



This suggests it's 5-40 mg per kilogram of solution. So the concentration is 5 to 40 mg per 1 kilogram of say water.


Got a response from my email request from the company, they said the ingredients are "Xanthan gum, Glycerin, Water, Acrylate copolymer & Non Phenol ethoxylate."
Which one of those is the solvent do you think? It's annoying they weren't more specific with which copolymer it is.

Actually I'm only 18. I can imagine it does suck at any age, I hope they come up with a better solution soon.

wrote...
Educator
4 years ago
Got a response from my email request from the company, they said the ingredients are "Xanthan gum, Glycerin, Water, Acrylate copolymer & Non Phenol ethoxylate." Which one of those is the solvent do you think? It's annoying they weren't more specific with which copolymer it is.

Glycerin and water are, but harmless.

Picked up something concerning on Non Phenol ethoxylate

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonylphenol

Nonylphenol has attracted attention due to its prevalence in the environment and its potential role as an endocrine disruptor and xenoestrogen, due to its ability to act with estrogen-like activity.[3] The estrogenicity and biodegradation heavily depends on the branching of the nonyl sidechain.[4][5][6] Nonylphenol has been found to act as an agonist of the GPER (GPR30).[7]

Not sure I like the way that reads.
Ethan G. Author
wrote...
4 years ago
Got a response from my email request from the company, they said the ingredients are "Xanthan gum, Glycerin, Water, Acrylate copolymer & Non Phenol ethoxylate." Which one of those is the solvent do you think? It's annoying they weren't more specific with which copolymer it is.
Glycerin and water are, but harmless. Picked up something concerning on Non Phenol ethoxylate Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonylphenol
Nonylphenol has attracted attention due to its prevalence in the environment and its potential role as an endocrine disruptor and xenoestrogen, due to its ability to act with estrogen-like activity.[3] The estrogenicity and biodegradation heavily depends on the branching of the nonyl sidechain.[4][5][6] Nonylphenol has been found to act as an agonist of the GPER (GPR30).[7]
Not sure I like the way that reads.

Thanks, I'll have to have a look at ethoxylate.

So would this glue be classed as a lipid-soluble and have the potential to get into fat, or would it not as it's only water and glycerin?

Also this is probably a stupid question but do we have that much fat on top of our heads, or can it spread to other areas?
wrote...
Educator
4 years ago Edited: 4 years ago, bio_man
Looks like it's lipid soluble.

As long as it's not ingested, don't worry so much about lipid solubility. Since your skin is composed of layers of dead skin anyway, the lipid solubility property doesn't matter.

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Also this is probably a stupid question but do we have that much fat on top of our heads, or can it spread to other areas?

When you consume something that's lipid soluble, that substance gets incorporated into fat deposits everywhere in the body, including liver fat.
Ethan G. Author
wrote...
4 years ago
Looks like it's lipid soluble. As long as it's not ingested, don't worry so much about lipid solubility. Since your skin is composed of layers of dead skin anyway, the lipid solubility property doesn't matter.
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Also this is probably a stupid question but do we have that much fat on top of our heads, or can it spread to other areas?
When you consume something that's lipid soluble, that substance gets incorporated into fat deposits everywhere in the body, include liver fat.

If Glycerin is fat soluble, does that mean if you did ingest it, then it would end up in fat deposits, or would it also allow all of the other chemicals to go into the fat deposits? (i.e. would it potentially take the acrylates with it?)

Is glycerin the only thing that is fat soluble? I looked some of the chemicals up but could find a thing about fat solubility (or possibly I didn't know what terms to look for)
wrote...
Educator
4 years ago
Don't forget that glycerine gets digested by enzymes in our intestines. It isn't dangerous. If glycerine acts as a vehicle for the acrylate polymer's entry into the gut, then that's a concern.

When I searched for Nonylphenol ethoxylate solubility, sources stated it's not water soluble, so I concluded the opposite is true.
Ethan G. Author
wrote...
4 years ago
Don't forget that glycerine gets digested by enzymes in our intestines. It isn't dangerous. If glycerine acts as a vehicle for the acrylate polymer's entry into the gut, then that's a concern. When I searched for Nonylphenol ethoxylate solubility, sources stated it's not water soluble, so I concluded the opposite is true.

Is there any way to tell whether it is acting as a vehicle? As if it was would that not mean all the studies are largely irrelevant to this as it may be entering the body more as it's in a solution with solvents?

If something isn't water soluble does that mean it is fat soluble?

wrote...
Educator
4 years ago
Not sure why it's used for this adhesive, but it is a common additive in countless medicines and food products. Normally they add it to eardrop products, jellies and creams for topical use, etc.

Remember, we're talking hair adhesives here, so I'm guessing that because glycerin is relatively sticky, it'd only help in creating a stiffer bond between one's scalp and the hair piece. Adding it likely increases the water resistance, when combined with the film-forming polymers, leading to an increase the tackiness as well.

Again, all these are assumptions...
Ethan G. Author
wrote...
4 years ago
Not sure why it's used for this adhesive, but it is a common additive in countless medicines and food products. Normally they add it to eardrop products, jellies and creams for topical use, etc. Remember, we're talking hair adhesives here, so I'm guessing that because glycerin is relatively sticky, it'd only help in creating a stiffer bond between one's scalp and the hair piece. Adding it likely increases the water resistance, when combined with the film-forming polymers, leading to an increase the tackiness as well. Again, all these are assumptions...

So do you think it is likely to pose a risk here? It sounds worrying, if glycerin can dissolve the toxic monomers then doesn't that mean they can get into the body?

I looked at methyl methacrylate and it says it is soluble in water, so on its own presumably can't get into fat. However could glycerol allow it too, potentially making it a lot more dangerous than all of the studies show?
wrote...
Educator
4 years ago
So do you think it is likely to pose a risk here? It sounds worrying, if glycerin can dissolve the toxic monomers then doesn't that mean they can get into the body?

Not if it's topical. It's only on the skin's surface. The molecule might even be too large to seep into your skin anyway. Most it will do is cause irritation, as the skin isn't as breathable with this stuff on it.

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However could glycerol allow it too, potentially making it a lot more dangerous than all of the studies show?

Through the skin? Not a chance. That would be a concern of mine if it was being ingested, but not if it's sitting on the skin.
Ethan G. Author
wrote...
4 years ago
So do you think it is likely to pose a risk here? It sounds worrying, if glycerin can dissolve the toxic monomers then doesn't that mean they can get into the body?
Not if it's topical. It's only on the skin's surface. The molecule might even be too large to seep into your skin anyway. Most it will do is cause irritation, as the skin isn't as breathable with this stuff on it.
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However could glycerol allow it too, potentially making it a lot more dangerous than all of the studies show?
Through the skin? Not a chance. That would be a concern of mine if it was being ingested, but not if it's sitting on the skin.

Is it not possible for it to get into the blood? There was somebody talking about this on a forum about hair pieces and they mentioned that chemicals placed on the skin would be absorbed quite quickly and often end up in the bloodstream.
wrote...
Educator
4 years ago
Yes, he's right. So the three ways chemicals seep into the bloodstream is either intracellular, intercellular, and transappendageal.

Intracellular is when chemicals penetrate the skin by passing directly through cells via permeation, or in-between cells (intercellular), or by passing through the hair follicles or sweat ducts - that's transappendageal. If a chemical successfully passes through the upper layers of skin, it has the chance to be absorbed by the bloodstream or lymphatic system. That's when it becomes a concern. Whether or not the chemicals in the glue are capable in doing this is difficult to say. Perhaps the chemicals stickiness, viscosity, or even molecular weight, makes it less likely to happen. This I'm uncertain of Confounded Face
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