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iScience iScience
wrote...
Posts: 78
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11 years ago
surfactants eventually cause the destruction of the cell membranes. So why doesn't it do the same to my skin?

do surfactants have the ability to kill all bacteria or do some bacteria have defenses against this kind of attack?
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wrote...
Educator
11 years ago
What's your definition of surfactant?

To answer this question Downwards Arrow

So why doesn't it do the same to my skin?

Detergents disrupt the lipid barrier surrounding cells by disrupting lipid:lipid, lipid:protein and protein:protein interactions. Your skin is composed of cells, cells have membranes. Cell is also porous.

do surfactants have the ability to kill all bacteria or do some bacteria have defenses against this kind of attack?

Bacteria can built a resistance to just about anything; they're the only species to stand the test of time Smiling Face with Open Mouth They do this in multiple ways, including the production of biofilm. Certain bacteria, secrete a polysaccharide which is a constituent of their membrane. These secretions are very sticky and attach themselves firmly to metal surface. The resulting film so formed containing trapped bacteria is referred to as a biofilm. Bacteria which are responsible for biofilm formation may in themselves not be harmful or pathogenic. However, the gelatinous matrix which they excrete is capable of attracting to itself and embedding pathogenic bacteria, such as Lysteria monocytogenes. Although the pathogens themselves do not contribute towards the integrity of the film, they nevertheless are capable of contaminating products which come into contact with the surface.
Source  http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/dissertations/AAI3085740/
iScience Author
wrote...
11 years ago
Detergents disrupt the lipid barrier surrounding cells by disrupting lipid:lipid, lipid:protein and protein:protein interactions. Your skin is composed of cells, cells have membranes. Cell is also porous.

yes, but that entails that the majority of the detergent material goes through the skin. why? why doesn't it insert itself into the lipid bilayer and start disrupting all the skin cells at contact?

Also, if the majority of the detergent does actually go through the skin, doesn't this mean that detergent would be toxic to people on contact? because it would get in the body which would then have access to much more easily disruptable cells?
wrote...
Educator
11 years ago
yes, but that entails that the majority of the detergent material goes through the skin. why? why doesn't it insert itself into the lipid bilayer and start disrupting all the skin cells at contact?

If it's liquid detergent, leave it in there long enough, it will dissolve your skin. If it's granular, it's just a matter of surface area.

Also, if the majority of the detergent does actually go through the skin, doesn't this mean that detergent would be toxic to people on contact? because it would get in the body which would then have access to much more easily disruptable cells?

Absolutely, said correctly.
iScience Author
wrote...
11 years ago
Quote
If it's liquid detergent, leave it in there long enough, it will dissolve your skin. If it's granular, it's just a matter of surface area.

But i mean why does it take the skin cells so long to get disrupted as opposed to other cells?
wrote...
Educator
11 years ago
It's because the first few layers are not alive, they kertanized, which gives them strength and durability.
iScience Author
wrote...
11 years ago
Quote
acteria can built a resistance to just about anything; they're the only species to stand the test of time Happy They do this in multiple ways, including the production of biofilm

if any part of the lipid surface is exposed though, then that bacteria is pretty much screwed right? or do they have any resistances against surfactants with an exposed lipid surface?
wrote...
Educator
11 years ago
if any part of the lipid surface is exposed though, then that bacteria is pretty much screwed right?
Hi again, yes and, in fact, instantly given the side of the bacteria. Each grain of detergerenet, if you want to call it that, it ten fold the size of a single microbe. It's the equivalent of a bolder, the size of a house, filled with alkaline base being through on your head.

iScience Author
wrote...
11 years ago
i didn't catch what that video was. Was the chemical detergent?
wrote...
Staff Member
11 years ago
Was the chemical detergent

I've seen that movie before, it's called Fight Club - I'd recommend it.

He uses lye, which possesses characteristics of all detergents in that it's very basic (alkaline). Lye, however, has a pH of 14 I believe, which means it's at the most 'basic' a chemical can be. The only way to neutralize a chemical is by using an acid. Detergents are not that alkaline, but are still within range.
- Master of Science in Biology
- Bachelor of Science
wrote...
10 years ago
Reply

pH 14 is just a number, it is no maximum. There is only one rule to pH.
That is that Water always have(under normal conditions):    [H] * [OH] = 10^-14
If the amount of [H] goes down, then [OH] goes up. And the product of them must always equate 10*-14.

Now, given a detergent with pH 14: it means that there are 10^-14 protons/liter and there must therefor be 1 mole of OH /Liter.  Since 10^-14 * 1 = 10^-14
wrote...
Staff Member
10 years ago
I will mark this topic solved for now. Thanks for the thought-provoking topic.
- Master of Science in Biology
- Bachelor of Science
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