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needbiohelp! needbiohelp!
wrote...
14 years ago
I need help determinig the uncertainty of the total population. These are my calculations :


Population Density=        average              dandelions/m2
                                   area of hula hoop

Average= sum of dandelions/ number of quadrats

=25+29+24+29+31+25+27+16+23+25+28+20+31+23+29+24+24+21+17+24+23                                                                21
=24.67 dandelions

Area of hula hoop = ? r2
= ? (0.46)2
=0.67 m2  ± 0.01m

Population Density
=24.67
   0.67
= 36.8 dandelions/m2   


Total Population= population density x area of field    

Area of Field
= 40 x 40
= 1600m2  ± 1m

Total Population= 36.8 x 1600
= 58 880 dandelions

I just dont get uncertainties!
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wrote...
Educator
14 years ago Edited: 14 years ago, bio_man
Welcome to the forum needbiohelp!,

It has been some time since I have done uncertainties. The last time I checked, it has a lot to do with calculus. In the quadrat method, the basic procedure is to count all the individuals within a number of sample areas (or volumes) of a known size, and then extrapolate the average density to the entire area. Quadrat refers to a 4-sided figure, but sample plots can, in practice, be of any shape. Thus, if you counted eight dandolins in a 0.01 ha quadrat in a forest, you could extrapolate this
to 800 dandolins per ha for the entire forest.

I will go through ur calculations to see of any outstanding mistakes.

Population Density = average number of dandelions per square meter (in your case, a hula hoop)
                                   
Average= sum of dandelions / number of quadrats = (25 + 29 + 24 + 29 + 31 + 25 + 27 + 16 + 23 + 25 + 28 + 20 + 31 + 23 + 29 + 24 + 24 + 21 + 17 + 24 + 23) / 21
=24.67 dandelions

Area of hula hoop = pie*r*r
= 3.14 (0.46)2
=0.67 m2 ± 0.01 m2

Population Density

= 24.67 / 0.67 m2
= 36.8 dandelions / m2   

Total Population = population density x area of field   

Area of Field

= 40 m x 40 m

= 1600 m2  ± 1 m

Total Population = 36.8 x 1600 = 58 880 dandelions


To my understanding, uncertainties means the degree of error in the data you collected, so the sum of dandelions per each quadrant basically since everything else does not have variation. I think you have to find the SE (standard error) of these values summed up. 25+29+24+29+31+25+27+16+23+25+28+20+31+23+29+24+24+21+17+24+23.

If it is, say +/- 3.4, you add 3.4 onto 24.67 and carry on with the calculations using that number and then substract 3.4 with 24.67 (so 24.67 - 3.4 = 21.27) and use that number to carry on the calculations.

needbiohelp! Author
wrote...
14 years ago
thanks, but i dont understand the standard error part? what is that?
wrote...
Educator
14 years ago
See attachment. The standard error is the amount of variation there is in the collected data. In the graph, you see that 30 is the average +/- 7. So the data fluctuates between 23 to 37 even though the average is 30.

The easiest way to calculate the standard error of the mean is to use excel (see attachment 2). We get 24.67 +/- 0.931538 which is really good (accurate measuring).

What I was proposing was add 0.931538 to 24.67 = 25.601538 and carry out the rest of the calculations using this number. Then, subtract 0.931538 from 24.67 = 23.738462 and carry out the rest of the calculations using this number.
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wrote...
Educator
14 years ago
I found you a link that is somewhat similar to your dilemma:

http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys377/uncert.html
wrote...
Donated
Valued Member
14 years ago
Hey needbiohelp!

Here are some examples of uncertainty which I had in a file from years ago:

Uncertainty in a single measurement
Bob weighs himself on his bathroom scale. The smallest divisions on the scale are 1-pound marks, so the least count of the instrument is 1 pound.

Bob reads his weight as closest to the 142-pound mark. He knows his weight must be larger than 141.5 pounds (or else it would be closer to the 141-pound mark), but smaller than 142.5 pounds (or else it would be closer to the 143-pound mark). So Bob's weight must be

weight = 142 +/- 0.5 pounds

In general, the uncertainty in a single measurement from a single instrument is half the least count of the instrument.


--------------------------------------…


Fractional and percentage uncertainty
What is the fractional uncertainty in Bob's weight?

uncertainty in weight
fractional uncertainty = ------------------------
value for weight

0.5 pounds
= ------------- = 0.0035
142 pounds


What is the uncertainty in Bob's weight, expressed as a percentage of his weight?

uncertainty in weight
percentage uncertainty = ----------------------- * 100%
value for weight


0.5 pounds
= ------------ * 100% = 0.35%
142 pounds



--------------------------------------…


Combining uncertainties in several quantities
When one combines several measurements together, one can often determine the fractional (or percentage) uncertainty in the final result simply by combining the uncertainties in the several quantities.

Jane needs to calculate the volume of her pool, so that she knows how much water she'll need to fill it. She measures the length, width, and height:


length L = 5.56 +/- 0.14 meters
= 5.56 m +/- 2.5%

width W = 3.12 +/- 0.08 meters
= 3.12 m +/- 2.6%

depth D = 2.94 +/- 0.11 meters
= 2.94 m +/- 3.7%


To calculate the volume, she multiplies together the length, width and depth:

volume = L * W * D = (5.56 m) * (3.12 m) * (2.94 m)

= 51.00 m^3

In this situation, since each measurement enters the calculation as a multiple to the first power (not squared or cubed), one can find the percentage uncertainty in the result by adding together the percentage uncertainties in each individual measurement:


percentage uncertainty in volume = (percentage uncertainty in L) +
(percentage uncertainty in W) +
(percentage uncertainty in D)

= 2.5 % + 3.7%

= 8.8%

Therefore, the uncertainty in the volume (expressed in cubic meters, rather than a percentage) is


uncertainty in volume = (volume) * (percentage uncertainty in volume)

= (55.00 m^3) * (8.8%)

= 4.84 m^3

Therefore,

volume = 55.00 +/- 4.84 m^3
= 55.00 m +/- 8.8%



--------------------------------------…


Is one result consistent with another?
Jane's measurements of her pool's volume yield the result

volume = 55.00 +/- 4.84 m^3

When she asks her neighbor to guess the volume, he replies "52 cubic meters." Are the two estimates consistent with each other?
In order for two values to be consistent within the uncertainties, one should lie within the range of the other. Jane's measurements yield a range

55.00 - 4.83 m^3 < volume < 55.00 + 4.83 m^3

50.17 m^3 < volume < 59.83 m^3

The neighbor's value of 52 cubic meters lies within this range, so Jane's estimate and her neighbor's are consistent within the estimated uncertainty.



--------------------------------------…


What if there are several measurements of the same quantity?
Joe is making banana cream pie. The recipe calls for exactly 16 ounces of mashed banana. Joe mashes three bananas, then puts the bowl of pulp onto a scale. After subtracting the weight of the bowl, he finds a value of 15.5 ounces.

Not satisified with this answer, he makes several more measurements, removing the bowl from the scale and replacing it between each measurement. Strangely enough, the values he reads from the scale are slightly different each time:

15.5, 16.4, 16.1, 15.9, 16.6 ounces

Joe can calculate the average weight of the bananas:

15.5 + 16.4 + 16.1 + 15.9 + 16.6 ounces
average = ----------------------------------------…
5

= 80.4 ounces / 5 = 16.08 ounces

Now, Joe wants to know just how flaky his scale is. There are two ways he can describe the scatter in his measurements.

The mean deviation from the mean is the sum of the absolute values of the differences between each measurement and the average, divided by the number of measurements:
0.5 + 0.4 + 0.1 + 0.1 + 0.6 ounces
mean dev from mean = --------------------------------------
5

= 1.6 ounces / 5 = 0.32 ounces


The standard deviation from the mean is the square root of the sum of the squares of the differences between each measurement and the average, divided by one less than the number of measurements:
[ (0.5)^2 + (0.4)^2 + (0.1)^2 + (0.1)^2 + 0.6)^2 ]
stdev from mean = sqrt [ ----------------------------------------… ]
[ 5 - 1 ]

[ 0.79 ounces^2 ]
= sqrt [ -------------- ]
[ 4 ]

= 0.44 ounces

Either the mean deviation from the mean, or the standard deviation from the mean, gives a reasonable description of the scatter of data around its mean value.

Can Joe use his mashed banana to make the pie? Well, based on his measurements, he estimates that the true weight of his bowlful is (using mean deviation from the mean)

16.08 - 0.32 ounces < true weight < 16.08 + 0.32 ounces

15.76 ounces < true weight < 16.40 ounces

The recipe's requirement of 16.0 ounces falls within this range, so Joe is justified in using his bowlful to make the recipe
needbiohelp! Author
wrote...
14 years ago
thanks so much!
i was wondering one more thing.
for the total population i get 59000 and around 54000.
which one do i write?
wrote...
Educator
14 years ago
I think displaying 24.67 +/- 0.931538 (mean +/- SE) is sufficient, but display both 59 and 54 000 (the exact whole numbers) - Don't show the decimal like 54 000.45 (you can't have .45 of a dandelion Face with Stuck-out Tongue )

So do you get it now?
needbiohelp! Author
wrote...
14 years ago
yes, THANK YOU SOO MUCH!!!  Smiling Face with Open Mouth Smiling Face with Open Mouth Smiling Face with Open Mouth
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