Being Catholic and having grown up in the Catholic school system, I do not feel that the Adam and Eve story that we were given, although at a younger age was perceived to possibly be the reason behind humanity's conception, did not hinder my ability at an older age to understand that it is merely a story to help us understand as Catholics our free will as humans. I believe teaching both ID and Evolution in Christian Based or other Faith-based schools is beneficial in giving the students options to understand the progress of humanity. As most of us at this age know, it's not until really later in life, for some of us we still don't know what we believe, we decide some of the things we are going to choose to believe. As a science, primarily biology, student the science surely does point to evolution being the basis for the existence of life on our planet. But I am also certainly open to a higher power helping to shape the progression of the organisms on this planet through whichever divine intervention action they choose to use.

I see what you mean, wonderworld, however, they should not have to teach ID alongside Evolution as an alternative. It is not an 'alternative theory' it is, at best, a different take on the origins of life itself.

Seeing as I was born a catholic, did all my schooling in Catholic schools, in my highschool, during religion class we were taught creation theory, and in Biology, we were taught evolution. Maybe it was because where my HS was situated, we accepted different religions to attend the school-so this could be a reason both theories were accepted to be taught.

However I do believe and strongly feel that the creation theory has no business to be brought up in a Biology class room, because the 2 theories in some sort of way contradict themselves. It makes more sense to teach evolution in Biology and creation in Religion. In HS majority of students understood both theories. I feel the only students who have difficulty understand both are ones new to this country and find the English language difficult. I believe the only schools who do not currently teach the evolution theory are the all Jewish schools, seeing as they are devote to their religion.

I know this topic has been pretty much rung through, but I really enjoy the Evolution vs. Creation debate.
I had a bad experience in high school biology when we were being taught evolution because my teacher tried to tell us that giraffes necks were long because they had to reach the trees to attain their food. That completely turned some of us off of the theory. Once I got to University and was able to better understand Natural Selection, I was able to accept it much better.

High school teachers need to make sure that they teach the students current facts and knowledge, not past ideas. Another thing is, teens tend to be very stubborn, so maybe if the teacher could spend a few minutes explaining that there are different ideas out there about the origin of life, however, a lot of the time the scientific theory cannot be applied to these. The students could even be given a chance at a specific time in the semester after most of the facts have been given to have a debate. That way those that don't believe in the theory would be given a chance to educate the other students without interrupting the lectures (which is really what ended up happening in high school...).

Evolution doesn't really comment on the origins of life, more on how life changed over time. I see no reason why a science teacher should teach anything but biology in a biology class room.

kong is right. There is no logical reason for creationism or ID to be taught in a science classroom. As public school is funded by the public's taxes, the only rational thing to be taught in a high school science class room is what is BEST for the public which includes teaching evolution and not creationism. If the students feel like their beliefs conflict with what is being taught in the classrooms they are free to leave and be taught in a private institution or at home on whatever subject they would like at their own expense. It also comes to mind that if we teach the Christian version of creation in a publicly funded science class then it will only be a matter of time before some other religion wants their version of creation to be taught, which is equally as unacceptable. The ONLY counterpoints that can be made in high school for evolution are those views which are based IN SCIENCE and with EMPIRICAL and REPRODUCIBLE data.

Religion and science are mutually exclusive and that is how it should remain. Until the fairy tales in the bible can begin to make accurate prediction and testable hypotheses on the evolution of ANY creature on Earth then I will accept it being taught in a biology class.

And if you ask me, evolution isn't a difficult enough concept to not be taught in high school. The details can be worked out in higher and more specialized courses but the concept is easy enough to understand for even an 8 year-old.

"Until the fairy tales in the bible can begin to make accurate prediction"

If you denounce biblical history as mere fairy tales, then you are a fairy tale too - you don't exist.

Ignorance is bliss, isn't it? =)

If you want to believe that "a virgin shall concieve, and bear a son" isn't a Disney fairy tale then that's your belief. So I will try to convince you otherwise by presenting the facts.

First off, the bible is full of inconsistencies and loopholes which makes even the Twilight series look like a literary masterpiece. These inconsistencies lie not only within the bible itself but across interpretations of different religions. For instance: "All of this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet." Which is probably a reference to Zecharia 9:9 where it is said that when the Messiah comes he will be riding on an ass. The Jews are still awaiting this arrival while the Christians claim it has already taken place. No offence to Christians but the Jews were there a good 3,000 years if not more before them so I would believe what they say as they have more religious authority by default or "experience" you might say over Christians. Even those two religions can't agree between themselves if the prophet has come yet.

In the words of H.L. Mencken in his Treatise on the Gods: "The simple fact is thaat the New Testament, as we know it, is a helter-skelter accumulation of more or less discordant documents, some of them probably of respectable origin but others palpably apocryphal, and that most of them, the good along with the bad, show unmistakable signs of being tampered with."

This can be clearly exposed through some research. For instance, how could his disciples have left us the scriptures if they were illiterate? The answer lies in the fact that Christianity, the Roman Catholic Church in particular, nitpicked what they liked about the Jewish scriptures and further tampered it to suit the needs of the aristocrats, maintain control and extort their population and prevent the total collapse of their empire from the Christian zealots (Romans were initially pagans, and were probably the most religioulsy tolerant civilization ever to grace the Earth, in case you didn't know). This was almost 3 centuries after the arrival of this so called "messiah".


Secondly, the bible was translated from 3 different languages: Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts if I remember correctly. Therefore, the immense diversity in language, if you omit the fact that languages evolve over time, make the bible an innaccurate reference source as it's translation is limited by the skills of the translators as well as their own interpretation of the meanings behind the words. Humans are known to have a high rate of error.

Third, if you believe in nuclear power, then you cannot possibly believe in the Book of Genesis as the basic principles of nuclear fission and physics allowed us to determine that the Earth is indeed 3-4 BILLION years old and not 6,000 as you would believe. You cannot pick which areas of science to teach as it suits your needs. You can either choose to accept it all with some room for logical/rational skepticism or you can choose to not accept it at all and live a life without modern medicine, electricity, transportation.

Fourth, even some of the most high ranking priests and bishops in the Roman Catholic Church dismiss the bible as a mere story book and shouldn't be taken seriously except for learning about morals. Watch the film Religulous by Bill Maher and you will get the names if you don't believe me.

If you need further proof that creation never happened, you simply need to look up the hundreds of thousands of peer-reviewed scientific journals which demonstrate more than enough proof or you can simply pick up some of my favorite books which are available at all places of logical and rational learning like your local public library such as "Letter to a Christian Nation" and "The End of Faith", both by Sam Harris; "god is not Great" by Christopher Hitchens or "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. They explain in much greater detail than I can on this thread and with FACTS just how religion is pollution for the mind.

I may sound harsh but more often than not, but people need to be confronted with the truth.

Just know that I'll have the last laugh in the end since you'll just be in the ground rotting same as everyone else. The only difference will be I haven't wasted my entire life putting some false enitity before me.

Please don't take my silence as a weakness ... I just don’t pay much attention to fairy tales (you).

"First off, the bible is full of inconsistencies and loopholes."

Such as what? You failed to mention one. lol Jesus did come riding on a donkey; it's stated in the bible. The early Christians were Jews - shows how much you've researched this topic.

H.L. Mencken in his Treatise on the Gods: "The simple fact is thaat the New Testament, as we know it, is a helter-skelter accumulation of more or less discordant documents, some of them probably of respectable origin but others palpably apocryphal, and that most of them, the good along with the bad, show unmistakable signs of being tampered with."

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is irrelevant. Moving on...

The answer lies in the fact that Christianity, the Roman Catholic Church in particular, nitpicked what they liked about the Jewish scriptures and further tampered it to suit the needs of the aristocrats, maintain control and extort their population and prevent the total collapse of their empire from the Christian zealots (Romans were initially pagans, and were probably the most religioulsy tolerant civilization ever to grace the Earth, in case you didn't know). This was almost 3 centuries after the arrival of this so called "messiah".

lol Nitpicked? The Christians were persecuted for the first 300 years in Rome. Not only by the Romans, but also by local authorities. It was not until the year 312 that Christianity was adopted by Constantine as the mainstream religion of the Romans. Mind you, the scriptures were written well before that time. The early Church sprang shortly after Christ's resurrection.

I won't even go through the rest of your nonsense.

There is supposed to a seperation of state and church. To teach creationism (chuch-based idea) in public schools (state-based) is unacceptable.