Is Virus ever isolated?

I've looked at both sides of the spectrum, and both sides agree that bacteriophages exist, and can be isolated (bacteriophages are viruses are specifically infect bacteria and archaea). Those that disagree in the existence of human viruses argue that the process of isolation is flawed because it often relies on indirect methods of detecting the virus, such as observing changes in host cells or using PCR techniques to amplify viral genetic material. They claim that this indirect evidence does not constitute true isolation because it does not involve physically separating the virus from other cellular or environmental components. For instance, if someone has a bacterial infection, everyone will agree that that person is highly contagious. History has taught us this to be true; the plague was caused by the bacterium, Yersinia pestis; it was so contagious that it nearly killed half the European population. Today we have a defined procedure that enables us to isolate and kill it. In fact, anyone who comes in contact with Y. pestis will get infected (say 9 times out of 10). However, if you're around someone with a "viral infection", chances are that same sickness will not spread to you. This is has lead to a lot of skepticism worldwide, doubting whether vaccines are even real or required.

Interesting comment Woo ... as I can grasp culture-based-isolation of viruses is what is standard for detection, but what can be utmost misleading whether the virus is organism or some other emergence, simply coz if cant be isolated as organism but detected only by cell genomics then we are guessing its word for virus invader but actually it could be as well other possibility!?, and if this logic is substantial then PCR testing is also ultra vague technique for measuring the amount of distribution of some virus!?, aside that how is arranged defacto it can lead to certain false negative or false positive results if the air in the lab is polluted!?

I really find amazing how so science can be skewed so particular theory would become mainstream, tho in this case cant grasp why such persistence (that viruses are real organism) would be case!?, and wonder if this is disproved officially would that affect the germ theory i.e. would this anyhow impact the current medicine from diagnostics till treatments, or how that can have impact on big'pharma'profit, or even whole economy if we know that eventual acknowledgement that germ theory is adacta could stir panic while in same time is not postulated certain effective alternative theory!?, yet being slave to wrong alchemy is indeed wrong by large magnitude, just wonder till when!?

Must admit here I am projecting wrongness, and btw I am nor MD nor Biologists, thus dont take my assertions anyhow from position of authority, tho I do encourage You find will to research the proposed logic that in my opinion has more than grain of truth!, yet would like to hear debunking of it coz I've never seen any debate among pro and contra scientists on the matter!, what Woo has stated is indeed interesting and how at least on that take the ardent mainstreamers would respond!

Exactly, but I don't think virus deniers disagree with the germ theory completely, just the part regarding viruses. They believe that when you "catch a cold", it is not a viral particle that entered your body, but instead products of the body's response to environmental and lifestyle factors, such as toxins found in water and food, chemical products, radiation, etc. Thus, symptoms of the flu or cold is just your body's way of cleansing itself from these dangerous accumulated waste over time.

I think it would be wise to read the first study to successfully isolate a virus from mammalian tissue, published back in 1933. The study describes the isolation and cultivation of the virus responsible for causing polio. Since then the technique for isolation has been refined. The citation for the paper is:

Rivers, T.M., Schwentker, F.F., and Gates, H.F. (1933). "Experimental Poliomyelitis in Monkeys: I. The Clinical Response of Monkeys to Nasal Instillation of Virus Suspensions." Science, vol. 78, no. 2037, pp. 270-271.

The closest I got to finding it online was this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2133511/pdf/687.pdf

Hi Woo

I've check multiple sources. It isn't referenced, nor accessible

@Woo interesting suggestion primary coz just right after are reported lab injuries as if before the researchers were not aware about it!? https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/914706_3

Somehow this detection by culture'based'isolation is just marker that something is happening but it could be due to other reasons than viruses as separate organisms, maybe viruses are just message intrusion in the cells as kind of info printed by ribosomes!?, in reality when we cant isolate something as separate organism then we cant say exists as separate but probably is part of some greater system of the cell that is still not known to us as biology ...

I do find amazing that Biology is still deaf about Bioresonance as crucial mechanism of regulating the cell processes i.e. how by natural or artificial radiation on various bandwidths can be passes info in and from our bodies what is eg. factor for reshaping our organism, I could argue that viruses are maybe intermediators as info-valve maybe as bioresonance mediator among our bodies and the environment!?

Woo is off by a few decades

Here's what you're looking for

* https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/13022978/ (one of several publications from the same authors)
* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2599384/ (review of those publications)

The techniques outlined here for isolating viruses in tissue culture believe it or not are still widely used today in virology research. The authors even won a Nobel prize for it. WHile it may be helpful to know the origins of the technique, I've also included a revised protocol in the attachment for comparison. I will try reading the original sometime tomorrow, and give my input. MY heart is pounding thinking about what it could possibly mean to my understanding of viruses!

@duddy Thanks for Your time but I dont see in the proposed links denovo isolation of a virus, culture based genomic detection is not defacto isolation in full sense of the word nor we can say  that viruses are separate organism if we can have them alone as not rarely are pictured while explained as supposed "potential" organism ...

Here are few ontopic thoughts that are not per'se mine understanding, but just like in the first post linked theories give another alternative idea on the issue ...

https://www.lse.ac.uk/philosophy/blog/2020/07/06/a-virus-is-not-a-thing-1/

https://www.lse.ac.uk/philosophy/blog/2020/07/22/a-virus-is-not-a-thing-2/

https://www.lse.ac.uk/philosophy/blog/2020/08/25/a-virus-is-not-a-thing-3/

Post Merge: A year ago

I do find troubling how Biology (tho as a matter of fact the bulk of mainstream scientific realm) instead to be open constantly for revision and having high skepticism regarding the mainstream theories yet on contrary is behaving as if is word for dogmatic science that is heresy is anyhow is challenged and upon that challenge didnt came acclamation from above (i.e. edu cauldron of magisters) but in my opinion what actually as process of wrong elitism actually is enslaved by the fears of the capitalist medicine as system that now on large hand along pharmacology rests its practice exactly on the established germ theory, and not that should be problem any questioning of the same by whatever means if indeed is undisputed truth the same, but I have notion that exactly coz its more and more obvious that the current bio dogmas are in vacuum how time goes by so its getting more and more obvious the suppression of any alternative voice!, just not sure whether this hysteria is primary due to fears that such can hurt the current system per'se ~ or in question is greater fears (of the transhumanist elites) that any questioning of the current dogmas are opening gap to be revised the current genetic&bionic revolution trends and like that as medicine so as pharmacology tied to greater bioethical momentum ~ that for me now is one fine dilemma hm maybe both or even more piled fears are restraining the academia to open room for constant debate and revisions or postrevisions of the current scientific dogmas!?, anyway at least as shame revisions are starting to pop up here and there waiting now maybe on chatbots for further derailing by the zero'programer so would be secured the mainstream narrative!?

Hm, Lets Hope we will not end up in cyborgs and/or chimeras before the wrong exploited theories in Biology are revisited!, kudos to all that are finding will to question the wrong humanist dogmatics!, must admit I was as all the rest indoctrinated by the germ hype [1] but now more and more leaving room that maybe we are all manipulated by wrong bioscience coz whatever wrong trend among magisters!

Post Merge: A year ago

When shared the previous two postrevisionists, probably is useful to point proposition of dr. Thomas Cowan from the first video above [1][1][1] that is kind of explanation about Bioresonance [2][2]~~[2]~[2][2][2][2] the question is how the same to become ever understood in Biology if it is dismissed by Physics and Chemistry so the problem for postulating new paradigm shift is multidisciplinary, and hm maybe is mastered by someone already but is kept in bunker coz its risk as ultimate novine to disrupt as the current economic order so as the eugenicist if not malthusian lusts of some wrong euroatlantic determinists, so would not digress too much around the reasons why bioscience is intentionally kept as whole in moldy jar, I'll just point if and when it will came time for revisions and postrevisioning the current peer'review'process needs to be reestablished again coz now as dr. Andrew G Huff points is rigged till unbelief [3]] what in essence is stalling even regular tweaks of the prevailing therapies [4] what about cheap and easy novel healing with stem cells []][5]] that logically as such are extra treat to the current profit'based'medicine if not eugenics [][6][6] 

I think that is the case for a lot of scientific fields, most especially second to biology being physics (research on blackholes for example). Scientists that speak up are accused of heresy if they even question the validity of an accepted process. I think everyone is afraid not to overstep someone that is more experienced or smarter than they are. As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt" - I think that holds true with what you're saying. I was heavily chastised for criticizing the use of sanitizers becoming mainstream in daily use. In my immunology years, we learned how sanitizers artificially select for the evolution of superbugs, yet during the COVID years, everyone was lathering their hands with that stuff, and many continue to do so. Interestingly, we haven't heard of any superbug outbreaks since COVID, so maybe this notion of artificial selection has its limits too perhaps. Dr. Thomas Cowan was the first one to open my eyes to virology not being what we all thought it was, leading me to turn my back on questionable biological findings related to the unseen. I'll being reviewing the documents I uploaded shortly, I just need some time to read and disgust it.

duddy Thanks for the response ... nice to hear that scientific community is broadminded ... I do Hope we will see constant debate among pro and contra scientists about discrepancies in the theories ...

~

Also ... Sorry for those two last yt videos dont know why are shown as tagged altho posted as footnote, now looks as if the same are somehow crucial but actually just footnoted digressions ... also dont know why there is not edit option on my posts when are stacked like this one in another!?

The problem I face with these ideas is that if viruses don't exist, then what have we been researching all these years regarding HIV, hepatitis, the flu virus, etc...?

I'll went quite offtopic so would answer the previous dilemma coz it would be really shallow to throw simplistic answer like it is as it is coz academia accepted how accepted some narrative as fix and got stuck in its "wrong" trap, altho it would be easier to put all the "wrongness" as imposed direction for blind scientific following on one band like eugenicists!, but saying that the nephews are wrong coz their inherited stamina that would be also wrong!, and maybe eugenics played kind of stirring role in virology too [1][1] at least coz some rudimental superman bioprograming lusts (if not depop means too!?), tho I cant prove such assumption but eventually to chase earlier correlation, yet knowing that eugenics was wide trend back then then such correlating could get lost in the noise if not explored systematically and proved more factually, simply I dont want to claim certainty in this context coz havent explored the issue, as I can eg. in context of the next paragraph assertions ...

Probably the hardest thing is after whole century imposed exceptionalism and blind acceptance now with ease the mainstream science to step back and say nah we were wrong, hm cant imagine how that will be welcomed by the masses that have put not just their money but also health and above all belief in the system that supposedly was errorless as scientific altho defacto as always plutocratic even mids sciences, what if happens think it will be questioned also the pride of humanism as base for any eventual future technocracy ((which actually will evolve in "scientific dictatorship" which will rests foremost on the exceptionalism of humanism (however wrong it was [2][2][2])) thus saying now anyhow that the system of "science above all" was wrong would be suicide from ideological perspective regarding "their" new'world'order (here I talk about euroatlantic'determinist'elites that simply misused science as vehicle towards "their" inherited utopian lusts for superhumanity and heaven'on'earth [2][2][2]) even it was indeed debunked "their" wrong persistence to fund push and secure particular "wrong" alchemic trends ~ what to the normal mind looks just as mythological mambo jambo yet for "them" is the utmost important driving force behind the scenes which (sadly coz we are all hostages to it at the moment) is pushing "them" constantly on "wrong" tracks where by wrong means "they" are stubbornly imposing "their" scientific dogmas!

On what probably many would say that if so, then predominantly coz lucrative reasons is kept some narrative alive, and the rest theories just coz that pushed aside if not buried alive, still to expect that such conspy endeavor would be rigged solely coz money by those who actually as ea'determinist'elites hold the euroatlantic vaults&financial'gambling'house that would be think more than shallow logic!, simply for "them" what counts are "their" ideals which if we know that "they" are neopagans will do whatever takes to keep dreaming "their" wrong exceptionalism till embodiment of "their" utopia, somehow I sense "they" are ready to went till extremes even that meant collapse of our civilization as we know it!, aside that "they" have real implanted inherited malthusian fears in "their" heads that dont allow "them" to leave Science to work for betterment of the Mankind coz that would mean longevity for the "useless eaters" on top secured population growth and independence from "their" shackles!, So even if someone has will to stir change or bring more true understanding in some science especially in Biology think that someone was is and will be sabotaged up until "they" are in control of the valves in the euroatlantic realm!. I mean after few centuries manufactured humanism with particular utopian purpose now the same to open room for debunking that would be hm too big to fail thing not just for "them" as ea'determinist'elites but also for many that as scientists got indoctrinated by "their" edu system as elites [3][3] so most probably we will see further skewing and derailing so the current humanist narrative would survive and "someone" trial&error its chances till n'w'o and superhumanity somehow we are witnessing kind of second chance after ww2 for some ea'determinists to dream out "their" utopian nightmares of ideals!
 

(continuation on my previous post) Hm, probably pride is prominent trap for every Soul that has high esteem for itself, and if that is case with mediocre politicians then how much more are consumed by it scientists that once declare how their position is exceptional till dogmatism then its easily understandable how so some trend or theory is becoming even cult!, eg. darwinism or from it eugenics or social darwinism etc. alike isms that now are seen as undisputable truths in the natural sciences!, and maybe when this is assert by someone like me who is not scientist it will sound like some prejudice coz per'se I have utmost opposite mindset as Christian in contrast to the humanistic reductionism (altho I dont exercise some hate or animosity towards science as will for exploring and innovation yet I do condemn the bullying of humanist devotees upon all the rest with "their" esoteric philosophy and alchemic empiricism as essence of "their" appearance that reached even level of religion [1][1] practically humanism is deist hype of rosicrucians as neopagans that saw science as mean for apotheosis [2][2][2]) but when some scientist will throw check and balance to its specialization and label some mainstream theory as quackery then the things are starting to sound compelling for revisionism, but who to provoke wide public (preferably constant) eforum debate where as pro and contra scientists will confront own understanding ...

I'll propose few examples that somehow are in touch with virology like treating cancer by diet [3][3] to what I'll say similarly most of the viruses cant live in alkaline environment yet balancing the blood ph ratio is not even considered as prevention what about treatment for fighting viruses practically the funding of such studies and like that stimulating also the alternative theories is adacta as if defacto the current mainstream theories are ultimate approach, the same is issue with CBD too when viruses are in question [4] but stil as noone cares even about the choice for therapy as eg. Natural CBD vs artificial m'rna vaccine, as if we are condemned to kneel to someones scientific dictatorship even now mids democracy what about later mids eventual technocracy!?, hm maybe then will be revealed that electrical charge do have crucial effect on our wellbeing and that the current electromagnetic pollution is actually overburdening our bodies till collapse of the immunity, what is norm with 5g yet intentionally skewed as regulation coz "someones" higher cause altho even the studies prove the harmful effects [5] but what will be even more accented if is at least considered as possibility of seeing blood as charged gel instead pressurized chemical fluid as reductionist humanistic mind imposed to all that is case [6][6] simply we need paradigm shift around the envy the pride or the indifference of the scientific elites towards any alternative theory to their mainstream trends which even were on right path still it could be broadened as understanding as I am not rarely know to say we live mids half'truths if not fallacies coz accepted someones wrong exceptionalism as ultimate truth instead constantly to keep the skepticism high knowing how even now we dont understood fully all processes in the cell [7][7][7] nor how Life comes to being (dont have theory of Life) i.e. know maybe the mechanisms but have no idea from where why and what is the essence  [8] tho I’ll argue that dont have complete idea even about the mechanism knowing how bioresonance is not even accounted, So how and why we are convinced that the current mainstream trends are ultimate truth altho defacto not rarely lucrative medical or pharmacological spin that in my opinion suits "someones" eugenic or malthusian lusts!

Again who am I to question "their" exceptionalism yet it comforts me when I'll hear about someone from the academia that is questioning "their" wrong scientific dogmatism, altho the next example is doing that in context of physics per'se and probably coz acquaintance with vedic spirituality similarly as Nikola Tesla was ridiculing einsteinians also dr. Wolfgang Smith is doing the same in similar manner when refuting "their" exceptionalism [9] and altho I am not embracing as Christian anyhow the vedic tradition (simply it got polluted till demonology how astray from Monotheism) still as scientist I'll use him as example so would bring close the notion that scientific dogmatism as vice is recognized by many in the current predominantly by reductionist mechanistic humanist shaped academia waiting to shift in its neopagan mode once Christianity is removed from the scene at least "they've" hope that will be case altho even without such reality as we can see transhumanism as step towards apotheosis through "their" ahriman is again pushed on small door while we all stear in disbelief how was coerced by plandemix and through m'rna jabs wide path towards genetic&bionic revolution, sudenly xman is not anymore supersoldier hype but vast trial&error skim for chasing supercitizen [10][10]~[10][10]~[10][10] btw I'll digress so would point that we can all have different point of view even when have similar understanding that humanists are wrong eg. in context of his notion that sins dont exist in the vedic tradition hm think maybe he is not quite right i.e. where the judgement for the lusts is immediate as lower reincarnation so even scarier altho as esotery far from the Truth if we know that nor Angels can become Man nor we Animals yet as motivation for Salvation it could be seen reincarnation kind of penological concept that tho wrongly became cult [11][11][11] also about neoplatonism I have different position too [12] So this opposite understanding of mine example points that till we see some paradigm shift there will be various revisions surely, probably catholic scholastics will rejump too surely taoistic physics also etc. etc. attempt to reintroduce merger of different than the humanistic merger of alchemic physics and metaphysics!?, and its question whether will be resolved any eventual dispute mids such paradigm shift as fast as we suppose, yeah many believe a.i. will speed up the process, hm, if the input is wrong so it will be the revisions too!, simply humanism is for one century imposed as scientific dogmatism and few centuries shaped as alchemic inertia since renaissance era reaching crescendo in the enlightenment when took the lead from scholastics on the european universities i.e. actually when neopagan scientists removed the catholic one from the scientific scene So to expect that now that very same spirit after few centuries trending will evaporate without any objection that is hm too good to be true nomatter how wrong it is in its core, simply it will hit survival mode if not else, but what will survive from it it depends whether we will be cornered ahead by totalitarian western technocracy or we will see Open Democratic System, in essence once the western financial casino will collapse who will have the will to finance further expensive research of the current wrong eg. oncology etc. etc. wrong mechanistic lobotomy! On other hand if focus bit more dr.WolfgangS sounds to me like rosicrucian while now we are seeing bad cop good cop scenery coz its obvious that "their" reductionist band failed to bring safe shift towards "their" neopagan deist apotheosis so through second chance maybe to be opened door for new trials&errors now by holistic medicine recipe!?, hm dont mind my paranoia reflex, simply when one will wake up from "their" hijack of our societies and life as superwrong but ultraexceptional scientific authoritarianism waiting to shift in totalitarian technocratic deist chase for xman its normal to be careful what from whom is served!

If the virus is not a live thing i.e. is not anyhow organism but indeed exist (as observed existence in the cell [1][1]) as I speculate maybe kind of mediator of all the info as from the organism (rna) so as from the environment (bioresonance) then we need completely different workaround virology, altho many would like to dismiss it completely as emergence [2][2][2] yet to claim there is no other intrusion in the organism except bacteria or toxins is hm also exceptionalist approach i.e. we need first wide and long debate before such claim becomes fact, yet now we dont have it anyhow as dialog among pro and contra scientists ideally on some thematic virology eforum where experts 24/7 would debate any eventual revision of virology!, but who to pull out such eforum, hm so would be independent unbiased space probably some medical ngo that embraces alternative theories too altho not per'se alternative, good luck finding it, yet think in South Korea it could be traced some coz as I am aware there the traditional medicine is researched in parallel along the modern in universities ~ at least as potential knowhow when chasing cures for health issues ...

One interesting point in support of my thesis that viruses are info link can be found in the theory of Luis P. Villarreal (Emer. Professor at the Center for Virus Research and Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry at the University of California, Irvine) [3][3][3][3] who assumes that the prime link from rna to cells were viruses i.e. he dont see them per'se as intruders but parser protein (as I can grasp and interpret [4]) what gives completely different perspective how should be approached viruses tho not sure how is accepted his theory or whether at all is postulated as work or is stil on level of idea [5][5] and in context of this documentary I find really troubling how modern eugenicists are indeed trying now to reach xman reality i.e. chasing superhuman through vaccination, if there is enough large pool of constantly vaxed (coz fear of manufactured pandemix) then it could be constantly experimented on various control groups coz various needs [[urlhttps://youtu.be/RX7gwDGYgzs?t=2096=]6[/url]][6] now just dont tell me that for "them" bioethics matters, simply for "them" we as useless eaters we are per'se statistical error mids "their" rush for utopia. also seeing this assertion as conspiracy and stubbornly believing that such elite dont exist or dont control all the scientific valves on west it would be mistake that will cost Mankind more than living horror ahead, risk that ask every scientist to requestion its call and how is becoming part of "their" system, Kudos to dr. Robert Malone for his bravery to step up and shout stop this madness in "name'of'science" i.e. pushing on small door by coercion and trickery through the past plandemix an bionic&genetic revolution upon all world, what once proved deadly by large margin coz the faulty virusology and to it even faultier m'rna jabs it was gaslighted by the ukrainian crisis (as prematurely rolled geopolitical move just so would be derailed attention from the too big to fail m'rna ideal for tweaking superhumanity!) practically now how things are thrown under rug it could easily rebounce the same skim mids any next "pandemic" so the covert hype with the bionic&genetic revolution would continue!, now I would like to be wrong and these loud fears of mine to be just assumption but too many times was proven that for bioethical or ecoethical side of the western system is just cardbox facade for calming any eventual hesitancy in the masses!

So I cant claim with certainty how much virology is now in vacuum, but I can say it will get even further in deep wrong space if by exceptionalism is kept dogmatic by the 19th century eugenic logicism!, still it could be sensed change on the horizon altho its open question how elites will twist the current theory so would not admit complete disbandment of all the work however as wrong was pilled for century and a half!?, hm who knows with enough agitprop anything can pass, but even that becomes case its question again whether critical thinking will be allowed what about stimulated on universities eg. that "At least 9% of our DNA, our genome comes from retroviruses!" (Mindestens 9% unserer DNA, unseres Erbgutes stammen von Retroviren!) [7] or that the microbiome will get fine if we forget on chemical patched and instead focus on healthy stress~free and positive~thought lifestyle when what will matter is not how to hunt the lion but to make him friend [8] [8] hm go make starving lion friend so not that I am certain what is the true approach ahead but to push the very same germ dogma along virus-vaccine mantra that think would be ultra extra super wrong coz the same will be further expanded on steroids by a.i. simulations the very same that spewed the recipe for the last m'rna jab for sars'cov'2 tho I havent heard any at least talkshow where is mentioned this i.e. how wrong we can get while using supercomputers and superprograms for managing directions upon wrong input of virus theory, on top all that spice with bionic skim like IoB link to the lab (through the graphene oxide) maybe so would be easily monitored invivo the change on cellular level from the artificial m'rna programing biorevolution, yeah we've witnessed debacle of coerced biotech as normal next level of shift from humanism towards transhumanism and still noone in the academia has raised his voice as educational institution (with due respect to the lonely few) as if we are just waiting the next big spin as opportunity to see the skim retried coz yeah the same is tied to "their" great'reset and merge between biotech and fintech realm as "they" say coz longevity and sustainability (read superhumanity and n'w'o heaven'on'earth) [9]

So will we further follow "their" stupid exceptionalism or will wake up and start enmasse debating about all "their" wrong theories policies and plans!?, what think is doable through eTOS vibe but somehow as if all are waiting on "them" to bring debating infrastructure as to the academia so as to the masses while in meantime tilting on made for trivialization social networks!, also apologies to all that scientists that somehow are seeing themselves bashed by my reasoning, I am generalizing just in context of humanism and its roots i.e. how the same is seen as undisputed truth that is freedom and knowledge parexcellence while actually wrongly imposed and projected liberation and knowhow from the supposedly dark mindset of Christianity what actually in the enlightenment era by wrong system of metaphysic brought wrong physics and that trapped Mankind in even greater vortex of exploitation and totalitarianism than in feudalism!, still if wasnt for the exceptionalism of the neopagans think it could had have been reached some normal pace of progress instead the same constantly to be pushed on steroids and like that bringing far more misery than betterment for Mankind, I mean how so still artificial sweeteners are industrial norm altho live menace if we say that science and democracy were rightfully managed!?, for psychiatric drugs or chemotherapy as rule of thumb in all cases not to talk about etc. etc. wrong by default approaches of medicine!